2021-22 Rumours

[campabee82]

15 minutes ago, Paul Martin said:

I would move Petry for a bag of pucks if anyone will take his complete contract.  Guy has shown no character this year whatsoever and play has been horrible.  Got  his new deal look what happened.  Clearly doesn't care anything about the team now.

Instead of making ridiculous comments like this, try to imagine what he is going through. Jeff is dealing with on ice performance issues, family issues, covid restrictions and injuries, plus the internet trolls who are messaging his wife and whatever else has not been announced by the team on and off the ice. I don't blame him one bit for not being on his game this year with everything going on.

[maas_art]

4 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm in no rush to trade Price or Petry right now.

Price appears to be struggling to rehab and come back from injury. So... Whether or not he can/cannot come back from injury and when is something that needs to get resolved before dealing him and worrying about retained salary.

Petry's had a terrible season (like everyone). I don't see a reason to trade him when his value is at its lowest point since he arrived in Montreal. I would perhaps consider dealing him next season if he can start playing better.

 

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

This. And also to see how Petry does with a real coach. Put guys back in an actual system and that will help too. Give them NHL-quality goalies. The line-up is so depleted right now that it makes our better players look bad too. Players like Petry, Suzuki, Toffoli, Anderson, Gallagher, etc. are legitimate NHL players. I think they'll be better if given better elements to play with and a better system. No point in trading a guy at his lowest possible value, that was Marc Bergevin's specialty. We should be trading guys right now who won't be back next year (Chiarot, Kulak, Perreault, Wideman, etc.) or who have actually maintained value throughout this season and might get us a return (Lehkonen, Drouin, maybe Allen if a team is willing to wait out  his injury). There's zero point in trading Petry, Byron, Armia, Price, or others whose values are at an all-time low.

100%. 
Petry would have to be considered a negative value right now. If you traded him you'd either get nothing (mid round pick maybe?) or you'd have to take back crap.  He's too expensive, for too long, based on his current on ice performance, but lets build a team around him & see how he does.  Right now he has literally no other bonafide top 4 dmen on the roster with him.  Weber is hurt, Edmundson is hurt. Chairot has played well for stretches but is still ideally a 3rd pair guy as are the others.  Romy may be top 4 but not yet.   Petry cant do it all.  The bigger question with Petry would be if he wants out & has quietly requested a trade.  HIs wife apparently is very unhappy with Canadian mandates so..  Either way, i hope we dont trade him. If he wants out, let him build up his value next year & then im all for moving him. 

Price is the one guy over 30 i have no problem with keeping.  Why? Because its not insane to think he'll be effective for his whole contract. And while $10.5 is crazy money, i dont see us having cap issues in the next few years.   By all means if someone offers us great young value for Price, take it, but that seems extremely unlikely. I dont mind keeping him here for the duration if the only return is going to be mid-tier talent.

[claremont]

24 minutes ago, Paul Martin said:

I would move Petry for a bag of pucks if anyone will take his complete contract.  Guy has shown no character this year whatsoever and play has been horrible.  Got  his new deal look what happened.  Clearly doesn't care anything about the team now.

Wow - I can’t believe what I’m reading - very one sided judgement. Price went thru low depressing times, so did Drouin. There’s a massive cultural and organizational impact to team mates and employees if management just gives up on players so quickly and ignores past contributions. Sometimes there’s more important life aspects that impact performance. 

[H_T_L]

Petry has not had a good year for whatever reason, but he's only one cog in one wheel, and this team has been running on 4 flats all year. We gain almost nothing dealing him at this point. I'm also for holding on to him until things  stabilize on this team and we at least take a shot on increasing his value. If another team were to make an offer based on his past value,,, then by all means, listen.

[tony5775]

Petry has always been overrated by the team and most on here. Edmundson has on the other hand been underrated. So now we have to deal with the crazy contract he signed. If we can get rid of it then by all means do so. Not sure who would take him, but who knows. 

[Paul Martin]

If  a guy is trying hard and playing with pride by all means give him a lot of rope.  Petry gave up before the season hardly began and was supposed to provide veteran leadership which has been non existent,.,  Would not even back his teammate last game.  Too bad he has a no move but that doesn't mean he can't be moved to the press box.  Let him and anyone else who is not playing with pride eat popcorn until they show they are ready to respect the Jersey.

[campabee82]

17 minutes ago, Paul Martin said:

If  a guy is trying hard and playing with pride by all means give him a lot of rope.  Petry gave up before the season hardly began and was supposed to provide veteran leadership which has been non existent,.,  Would not even back his teammate last game.  Too bad he has a no move but that doesn't mean he can't be moved to the press box.  Let him and anyone else who is not playing with pride eat popcorn until they show they are ready to respect the Jersey.

Petry started the season injured and played through it because we had already lost so many other players. It is hard to get motivated when it is clear there is no point, would you be motivated in his position? I highly doubt it, no chance at the playoffs, not being able to see your family, injuries, covid and internet trolls messaging your wife! Not exactly the greatest environment to provide motivation.

[Paul Martin]

2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Petry started the season injured and played through it because we had already lost so many other players. It is hard to get motivated when it is clear there is no point, would you be motivated in his position? I highly doubt it, no chance at the playoffs, not being able to see your family, injuries, covid and internet trolls messaging your wife! Not exactly the greatest environment to provide motivation.

Now Petry wants to be traded.  Petry's take on the phrase  - When the going gets tough the tough get GOING.

[CaptWelly]

18 minutes ago, Paul Martin said:

Now Petry wants to be traded.  Petry's take on the phrase  - When the going gets tough the tough get GOING.

and can you blame him!

[BigTed3]

3 hours ago, tony5775 said:

Petry has always been overrated by the team and most on here. Edmundson has on the other hand been underrated. So now we have to deal with the crazy contract he signed. If we can get rid of it then by all means do so. Not sure who would take him, but who knows. 

I wasn't a big fan of the contract Petry signed in terms of monetary value, although I will say that MB did well to not  over-extend that deal. We're not locked in for 6 or 7 years to an age that we were with Weber. That said, no one foresaw Petry's wheels falling off so quickly one year into his new deal. The question is whether that's really the case.

So let's look at the numbers. Petry still has the 2nd-best Corsi on the team among D men after Wideman. Yes, it's true that his 49% is well below his career numbers (he's been 55% plus in each of the past three years and he's been 52% in every full season he's been here, which is phenomenal). But now look at his Corsi relative at 2.37, which is actually dead on where he was last year too. So what does that mean? We're actually still a significantly better team when Petry is on the ice compared to when he's on the bench AND the magnitude of that effect is the same as what it was last season, when he was deemed to be our best D man.

So that's why I'll come back to is this Petry really playing that badly or is this just the product of a bad system and bad teammates? The numbers suggest it's the latter. So this is why I would personally not trade Petry unless we get a strong offer. I wouldn't trade him as a salary dump and I'd rather see if he can rebound next year under a better coach. It also doesn't help that we have no one else to replace him on the right side. If you move on from Petry, you're looking at a right side of Savard, a guy with no experience like Brook, and a 3rd-pairing LHD playing on the wrong side of the ice. So trade Petry, and essentially next year is a write-off too. As I mentioned, we'd be better off dumping Savard (who has virtually no choice of rebounding as his numbers tell us he's been on a constant decline for a few years) and gambling on a Petry rebound instead.

As for Petry vs. Edmundson, the numbers simply don't support that Edmundson was the driving force behind that pair. Petry and Edmundson together put up a very strong 54.8% Corsi together. But Petry without Edmundson was even better at 58.2% and Edmundson without Petry was lower at 53.3%. Petry with Kulak was 61.2%. Petry with Chiarot was 57.8%. So Petry played even better with other guys that many here consider to be lesser players than Edmundson. Bottom line here is that Petry was the guy driving the success of the Petry-Edmundson pairing. It doesn't mean Edmundson wasn't a good complement to him, but Edmundson without Petry was good but not great, whereas Petry maintained an even higher level of success without relying on Edmundson.

[Paul Martin]

47 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

and can you blame him!

Yes

[Paul Martin]

28 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I wasn't a big fan of the contract Petry signed in terms of monetary value, although I will say that MB did well to not  over-extend that deal. We're not locked in for 6 or 7 years to an age that we were with Weber. That said, no one foresaw Petry's wheels falling off so quickly one year into his new deal. The question is whether that's really the case.

So let's look at the numbers. Petry still has the 2nd-best Corsi on the team among D men after Wideman. Yes, it's true that his 49% is well below his career numbers (he's been 55% plus in each of the past three years and he's been 52% in every full season he's been here, which is phenomenal). But now look at his Corsi relative at 2.37, which is actually dead on where he was last year too. So what does that mean? We're actually still a significantly better team when Petry is on the ice compared to when he's on the bench AND the magnitude of that effect is the same as what it was last season, when he was deemed to be our best D man.

So that's why I'll come back to is this Petry really playing that badly or is this just the product of a bad system and bad teammates? The numbers suggest it's the latter. So this is why I would personally not trade Petry unless we get a strong offer. I wouldn't trade him as a salary dump and I'd rather see if he can rebound next year under a better coach. It also doesn't help that we have no one else to replace him on the right side. If you move on from Petry, you're looking at a right side of Savard, a guy with no experience like Brook, and a 3rd-pairing LHD playing on the wrong side of the ice. So trade Petry, and essentially next year is a write-off too. As I mentioned, we'd be better off dumping Savard (who has virtually no choice of rebounding as his numbers tell us he's been on a constant decline for a few years) and gambling on a Petry rebound instead.

As for Petry vs. Edmundson, the numbers simply don't support that Edmundson was the driving force behind that pair. Petry and Edmundson together put up a very strong 54.8% Corsi together. But Petry without Edmundson was even better at 58.2% and Edmundson without Petry was lower at 53.3%. Petry with Kulak was 61.2%. Petry with Chiarot was 57.8%. So Petry played even better with other guys that many here consider to be lesser players than Edmundson. Bottom line here is that Petry was the guy driving the success of the Petry-Edmundson pairing. It doesn't mean Edmundson wasn't a good complement to him, but Edmundson without Petry was good but not great, whereas Petry maintained an even higher level of success without relying on Edmundson.

Numbers Snumbers.  Petry has been horrible .  Heres a  number .  The guy is 34.  By the Time the Team may be able to contend he will be out of the league. Use his cap space to pay young guys.

 

 

[BigTed3]

17 minutes ago, Paul Martin said:

Numbers Snumbers.  Petry has been horrible .  Heres a  number .  The guy is 34.  By the Time the Team may be able to contend he will be out of the league. Use his cap space to pay young guys.

 

 

Petry has been horrible relative to his usual performance, I agree. He's not producing points, yes. But a GM should be using all the tools in his toolbox to make decisions, and the reason advanced stats are helpful is that they help to explain why a guy is doing poorly. No one is saying Petry isn't playing poorly. But the numbers schnumbers suggest there's a chance he'll bounce back if the team weren't so bad, as opposed to a guy like Savard, who is just bad.

Hughes made it clear he wanted to use analytics and not just dump guys because they were playing badly but try to understand if there were things they could do to fix their play. Well here's a perfect example of just that. Now in general, would I keep a 34 year-old going into a re-build? No. I would 100% trade Petry, Gallagher, Price, Byron, etc. if we had good deals for them. But right now Petry is a struggling player on a big contract. Are you going to get good value for him now? Probably not. If you wait a year, the numbers suggest you might get decent value in the future. That's the benefit of having those analytics. A bad GM dumps him now and gets nothing back. A good GM insulates Petry and trades him when his value goes back up. It's not like we're in a rush to have to deal him. His contract isn't expiring and there's not even a need to create roster space for another RHD, we have no one in the organization to take his place. It's just dumb timing to try and reach to trade him.

[electron58]

4 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Petry started the season injured and played through it because we had already lost so many other players. It is hard to get motivated when it is clear there is no point, would you be motivated in his position? I highly doubt it, no chance at the playoffs, not being able to see your family, injuries, covid and internet trolls messaging your wife! Not exactly the greatest environment to provide motivation.

From what I've noticed,  I think Petry is more frustrated with Dom's system,  which is non-existent.  The other stuff is tough on him, because he's basically alone,  and can't be with his family. The whole team is going through tough times.  Can't really pick on one player.

[habsisme]

13 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Petry has been horrible relative to his usual performance, I agree. He's not producing points, yes. But a GM should be using all the tools in his toolbox to make decisions, and the reason advanced stats are helpful is that they help to explain why a guy is doing poorly. No one is saying Petry isn't playing poorly. But the numbers schnumbers suggest there's a chance he'll bounce back if the team weren't so bad, as opposed to a guy like Savard, who is just bad.

Hughes made it clear he wanted to use analytics and not just dump guys because they were playing badly but try to understand if there were things they could do to fix their play. Well here's a perfect example of just that. Now in general, would I keep a 34 year-old going into a re-build? No. I would 100% trade Petry, Gallagher, Price, Byron, etc. if we had good deals for them. But right now Petry is a struggling player on a big contract. Are you going to get good value for him now? Probably not. If you wait a year, the numbers suggest you might get decent value in the future. That's the benefit of having those analytics. A bad GM dumps him now and gets nothing back. A good GM insulates Petry and trades him when his value goes back up. It's not like we're in a rush to have to deal him. His contract isn't expiring and there's not even a need to create roster space for another RHD, we have no one in the organization to take his place. It's just dumb timing to try and reach to trade him.

there is some pressure from him though, he's asked for a trade

[campabee82]

51 minutes ago, habsisme said:

there is some pressure from him though, he's asked for a trade

He hasn't asked for a trade though, at least not according to Kent Hughes

[habsisme]

6 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

He hasn't asked for a trade though, at least not according to Kent Hughes

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-2022-trade-destinations-jeff-petry/

[campabee82]

5 minutes ago, habsisme said:

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-2022-trade-destinations-jeff-petry/

It says right there in black and white that Petry didn't request a trade just that he may have said he is open to a trade. As for Gagnon's comments he spreads rumors that benefit his agenda rather than actual news.

[electron58]

23 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

He hasn't asked for a trade though, at least not according to Kent Hughes

 

16 minutes ago, habsisme said:

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-2022-trade-destinations-jeff-petry/

Interesting read. It sounds like there may be parameters for a trade of some sorts. Not thrilled about Johnson or Oesterle, but intrigued about Filip Zadina (wouldn't that be ironic!) . Of course, Sam Girard would be a he!! yeah. We may be weaker, but it would be a step in the right direction. And I am sure that Petry will excel wherever he goes. We have to be good with that, and not second guess.

[electron58]

14 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

It says right there in black and white that Petry didn't request a trade just that he may have said he is open to a trade. As for Gagnon's comments he spreads rumors that benefit his agenda rather than actual news.

Where there's smoke???

[campabee82]

1 minute ago, electron58 said:

Where there's smoke???

According to the report it MAY have been to MB and just shortly after his comments about DD. Also this was around the time when he sent his family back to Michigan. What is being reported as a trade request could simply have been Petry a conversation between Petry and MB or whoever suggesting that if a coaching change is not in the plans and since his family is now living in two separate places he wouldn't be opposed to waiving his NMC. 

[electron58]

3 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

According to the report it MAY have been to MB and just shortly after his comments about DD. Also this was around the time when he sent his family back to Michigan. What is being reported as a trade request could simply have been Petry a conversation between Petry and MB or whoever suggesting that if a coaching change is not in the plans and since his family is now living in two separate places he wouldn't be opposed to waiving his NMC. 

For sure. Maybe technically there was no trade request but I gotta believe it will happen.  If not before the trade deadline, then during the off-season. I think Gorton is looking out for the well being of his players & US citizens are in  a unique situation. I'm sure Hughes will not give him away, as the article states, but if it's a hockey trade that benefits all parties (teams & players) concerned, it's gonna happen. I think at this point in time, it would be the prudent thing to do.

[campabee82]

44 minutes ago, electron58 said:

For sure. Maybe technically there was no trade request but I gotta believe it will happen.  If not before the trade deadline, then during the off-season. I think Gorton is looking out for the well being of his players & US citizens are in  a unique situation. I'm sure Hughes will not give him away, as the article states, but if it's a hockey trade that benefits all parties (teams & players) concerned, it's gonna happen. I think at this point in time, it would be the prudent thing to do.

I agree with that, I feel for Jeff as I know how it feels to be away from one's young family for a few months. Never have we been separated by a boarder during a pandemic or anything like that but at 25 I went to basic training and didn't see my family for almost 2 months. So I know how isolating it can feel, even when surrounded by others it can be isolating and depressing. I hope this gets sorted out soon even if it means him moving on from the Canadiens.

[Paul Martin]

8 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I agree with that, I feel for Jeff as I know how it feels to be away from one's young family for a few months. Never have we been separated by a boarder during a pandemic or anything like that but at 25 I went to basic training and didn't see my family for almost 2 months. So I know how isolating it can feel, even when surrounded by others it can be isolating and depressing. I hope this gets sorted out soon even if it means him moving on from the Canadiens.

See if Detroit will take him.  He is a Michigan guy and his dad is famous there. They need D help and maybe he can go there and decide to be a player again.

[ramcharger440]

On 2/1/2022 at 8:26 AM, Paul Martin said:

See if Detroit will take him.  He is a Michigan guy and his dad is famous there. They need D help and maybe he can go there and decide to be a player again.

Just out of interest who replaces him? really? EDIT Who replaces the minutes he plays? I agree he is playing very poorly right now but he was a stud most of last season and in the playoffs he played hurt. that does not just go away the situation around him fell apart though! No Webber no Eddy no top tier defensive center to take faceoffs in our zone. Petry is and always has been an offensive Dman to ask him to fill the role of team leader and defensive Dman and keep producing is insane! and with a coach who is in over his head and no clear plan it is just a recipe for this gong show we are seeing. A new coach and getting a partner that compliments what he brings would make Petry and anyone who could replace him look a lot better!