Montreal doesnt match Hurricanes Offer Sheet to KK

[ramcharger440]

Lots of rumors floating around! won't be too long now till we see what happens. the money is stupid so if we match MB is a fool! the picks are just ok but we could get a better center to help us right now using them and some of our assets. Seems like the smart thing to do now would be let him go make a trade and move on. the issue for me is how did the team let this happen? this was bad management no way around it he should have been moved or signed not left dangling ready to be scooped! Everyone had their own opinion on what KK may or may not become he has had a lot of NHL games to get a good read on what he brings he is young but he is old enough, is he worth 6 mil? I don't see him getting much better than he is now but that's just me he was always going to be a project I feel that folks think he was some kind of can't miss pick when really he probably got picked way to early as we needed a center so badly!

[campabee82]

7 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I think a fair offer to Kotkaniemi would've been two years AAV $2.5-3.5 million. Perhaps that's what Bergevin offered him and he wanted more. Rumors seem to indicate they were far apart on the contract. I know it's just rumors, but there must be something not right here for KK to sign the offer sheet with Carolina.

Rumors are that it was in the 1.5-2.5 on a 3year deal

[Regis22]

1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

. I blame MB for allowing this to happen, he trolled Waddell for not locking up his RFA's before FA opened then he does the same thing, talk about being a hypocrite

Blame MB for what ? For Carolina submitting the offer sheet ?  How do d MB troll Carolina . ? 

[campabee82]

5 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Blame MB for what ? For Carolina submitting the offer sheet ?  How do d MB troll Carolina . ? 

1. MB started the whole situation by offer sheeting Aho 2 years ago.

2. MB said at the time "Waddell should have resigned Aho early to avoid the chance of an offer sheet". Then MB went and left KK exposed to the same situation by not extending him early.

3. MB tried to low ball KK in his offers, reports are MB was only willing to go as high as 2.5 Mil on a 2 or 3 year deal.

This whole mess is MB's fault from start to finish, Carolina likely never submits the OS had MB not done it to Aho then troll Waddell by saying he should have locked up Aho early. MB is a moron and has had so many reasons to be fired throughout the years. How many 1st round picks are still with Montreal right now? Montreal has had 7 first round picks since MB took over only Poehling remains in the organization. At some point one has to look at the GM and say you are not doing your job time for you to leave.

[maas_art]

42 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm torn between matching the offer sheet and letting him walk. But it's really dependent on what we can do with those picks. My fear is that we let Kotkaniemi walk and we just cannot replace him in our lineup. I mean, shifting Drouin back to center seems dubious at best. Hoping we can trade for an awesome NHL established center...? Well, we've not been able to do that for years and years and years.

Agree completely. Ive been waffling every day since Saturday. I really dont know what i would do (but as you mentioned, without knowing what we can do with those picks or what other offers MB has had/has been working on, its tough to know what we would actually do).

I feel like whatever we decide (match or let walk) Im going to be disappointed.  

 

[habsisme]

28 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Blame MB for what ? For Carolina submitting the offer sheet ?  How do d MB troll Carolina . ? 

Every habs fan hates MB. No one has been fair to him since we traded that idiot PK. 

As for short changing KK and over paying vets... yeah THAT'S HOW IT WORKS. That's what you're supposed to do. 

Bye bye kk and good riddance

Re-sign MB for 5 more years however much money he wants. You disagree? Tell me who should be our next gm, not pie in the sky ideas

[campabee82]

4 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Every habs fan hates MB. No one has been fair to him since we traded that idiot PK. 

As for short changing KK and over paying vets... yeah THAT'S HOW IT WORKS. That's what you're supposed to do. 

Bye bye kk and good riddance

Re-sign MB for 5 more years however much money he wants. You disagree? Tell me who should be our next gm, not pie in the sky ideas

Someone who can ACTUALLY do the job! Literally anyone would be better than MB! When only 1 of your 7 first round picks are still with the organization you have got to take the blame for the direction of the team and development of the players

[habsisme]

17 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Someone who can ACTUALLY do the job! Literally anyone would be better than MB! When only 1 of your 7 first round picks are still with the organization you have got to take the blame for the direction of the team and development of the players

no thats bs. You critique him for doing what everyone else is doing... who isn't doing what he's doing? And he definitely excels in trading and free agency

This is KK's fault and the fault of the idiot owner in Carolina. You guys really need to stop beating up on MB, he's a top 5 gm in this league but you guys don't pay attention to what other GMs are doing, that why you can't name me one that you want instead, nevermind that he has to be available and speak french 

[booboo_mtl]

I really like Bergy, yes I've been sour at times but I think he's made some great signings and trades. Maybe his draft record isn't the best but considering where we usual pick he's done well imo. He just seems to fail when drafting for need (Chucky-C, McCarron-Big body, KK-C) instead of BPA . And those misses get magnified when it's 3OA. I'm glad he's hard balling players, KK hasn't really shown that much and with very little to no progression. I'm for letting him walk, seeing where we stand this season and having a stellar draft at home. Also, have to remember that if Caro losses 1st and 3rd they don't have much "bait" to get better during the season for a good playoff run, if they're even in the hunt. This could very well be there only move. 

[habsisme]

The drafting isn't all MB. People always defend timmins but he doesn't have a great record. MB wanted to draft Morgan Reilly but who cares, he turned chucky in to a good season with Domi and then into Anderson; the type of player that is a rare find. We're lucky to have him

[campabee82]

1 hour ago, habsisme said:

no thats bs. You critique him for doing what everyone else is doing... who isn't doing what he's doing? And he definitely excels in trading and free agency

This is KK's fault and the fault of the idiot owner in Carolina. You guys really need to stop beating up on MB, he's a top 5 gm in this league but you guys don't pay attention to what other GMs are doing, that why you can't name me one that you want instead, nevermind that he has to be available and speak french 

WOW I seriously can't believe you believe all that BS! Did KK request to be sat out in the SCF? Did he ask to be shifted around the lineup and saddled with 4th line and AHL quality wingers for the first three years of his career? Did KK ask to be LOW BALLED on an extension? Show me an instance where a top 5 GM in the league offered a top 6 young forward half of what their value is on a bridge deal! Show me another GM in the league who trades a you prime PK Subbanesque type of D man for an aging and often injured veteran signed until he is 40+. Show me another GM in the league that trades a top 4 defensive prospect for a winger that he intends to convert to a center! Show me another GM in the league who can miss the playoffs 8 years in a row and lose 6 of their 10 first round draft picks due to a lack of development in a 10 year span and still has their job! Put down the Koolaid, MB sucks as a GM.

[jennifer_rocket]

2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Rumors are that it was in the 1.5-2.5 on a 3year deal

Oh, if those are accurate rumors, I think that is sort of a low-ball offer. Especially with players like Paul Byron and Joel Armia making over $3 million per season.

[jennifer_rocket]

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Agree completely. Ive been waffling every day since Saturday. I really dont know what i would do (but as you mentioned, without knowing what we can do with those picks or what other offers MB has had/has been working on, its tough to know what we would actually do).

I feel like whatever we decide (match or let walk) Im going to be disappointed.  

 

But maybe after the disappointment you will be excited?  BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA GET PETTERSSON!

[campabee82]

4 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Oh, if those are accurate rumors, I think that is sort of a low-ball offer. Especially with players like Paul Byron and Joel Armia making over $3 million per season.

One of the rumor comes from Elliot Freidman so...

 

https://www.thepuckers.com/?no=53835&s=16

[habsisme]

15 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

WOW I seriously can't believe you believe all that BS! Did KK request to be sat out in the SCF? Did he ask to be shifted around the lineup and saddled with 4th line and AHL quality wingers for the first three years of his career? Did KK ask to be LOW BALLED on an extension? Show me an instance where a top 5 GM in the league offered a top 6 young forward half of what their value is on a bridge deal! Show me another GM in the league who trades a you prime PK Subbanesque type of D man for an aging and often injured veteran signed until he is 40+. Show me another GM in the league that trades a top 4 defensive prospect for a winger that he intends to convert to a center! Show me another GM in the league who can miss the playoffs 8 years in a row and lose 6 of their 10 first round draft picks due to a lack of development in a 10 year span and still has their job! Put down the Koolaid, MB sucks as a GM.

It always comes down to PK. I know that's when everyone turned on him. Best trade he ever made and he's made a lot of good ones... and he took us to a Stanley Cup final!

[campabee82]

2 minutes ago, habsisme said:

It always comes down to PK. I know that's when everyone turned on him. Best trade he ever made and he's made a lot of good ones... and he took us to a Stanley Cup final!

8 years no playoffs!!!!! Only made the playoffs the last 2 years because of a global pandemic! Forget the awful trades and signings and all that crap! As a GM your job is to build a team that makes the playoffs! He failed to do that every year since coming to Montreal, he has not made this team a playoff contender to date. Montreal even with KK or Eichel or Dvorak or whoever is not a playoff team! So why should he stay? What makes him one of the top 5 GM's in the league in your eyes? When in the last 10 years can you say that MB has done anything to build a playoff contender? He has made good lateral moves and Weber has worked out better than could have been expected at the time. Subban had more value than Weber did and should have gotten additional assets, a top 5 GM would have gotten more. So tell me exactly what has MB done to build a true playoff contending team?

[Regis22]

34 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

 Did KK ask to be LOW BALLED on an extension? Show me an instance where a top 5 GM in the league offered a top 6 young forward half of what their value is on a bridge deal! 

Out of curiosity what do you think he should have been offerred 

 

[campabee82]

2 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Out of curiosity what do you think he should have been offerred 

 

I think 3.25 x 3 years to get him passed having to resign Zuke and CC would have been a fair offer and accepted.

[seth505]

Big negatives to each possible outcome but I think there is potential for even worse negatives if they keep him.  1) What if he doesn't continue a solid uphill trend in improving and 2) contracts for other young players moving forward (especially if they are more valuable than he is).

[campabee82]

For those willing to let KK gofor such a small return guess who else on Montreal is represented by KK's agents, Nick Suzuki! So guess who else will be signing an OS if MB tries to lowball him too, that's right Nick Suzuki! This one OS has so many ramifications if not matched that it just makes no sense not to match and deal with the cap later.

[seth505]

4 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

For those willing to let KK gofor such a small return guess who else on Montreal is represented by KK's agents, Nick Suzuki! So guess who else will be signing an OS if MB tries to lowball him too, that's right Nick Suzuki! This one OS has so many ramifications if not matched that it just makes no sense not to match and deal with the cap later.

I don't see the correlation of this meaning Suzuki would sign an offer sheet.  Also, what about the flip side of that, if KK gets the 6mil, then the same agent will want insane amounts for the more valuable Suzuki and drive him somewhere else if he doesn't get it.

[MALMACIAN_CRUNCH]

2 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

For those willing to let KK gofor such a small return guess who else on Montreal is represented by KK's agents, Nick Suzuki! So guess who else will be signing an OS if MB tries to lowball him too, that's right Nick Suzuki! This one OS has so many ramifications if not matched that it just makes no sense not to match and deal with the cap later.

I’m not sure if that actually doesn’t make the case not to match. Matching sends the message that using OS’s as a negotiating tactic works. Not matching says try it if you dare, but be prepared to play for that team if the offer is beyond reason. Personally I would prefer we send the second message.

[habsisme]

6 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

For those willing to let KK gofor such a small return guess who else on Montreal is represented by KK's agents, Nick Suzuki! So guess who else will be signing an OS if MB tries to lowball him too, that's right Nick Suzuki! This one OS has so many ramifications if not matched that it just makes no sense not to match and deal with the cap later.

Suzuki is a different story though, he's already good, its an easier contract to negotiate

27 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

8 years no playoffs!!!!! Only made the playoffs the last 2 years because of a global pandemic! Forget the awful trades and signings and all that crap! As a GM your job is to build a team that makes the playoffs! He failed to do that every year since coming to Montreal, he has not made this team a playoff contender to date. Montreal even with KK or Eichel or Dvorak or whoever is not a playoff team! So why should he stay? What makes him one of the top 5 GM's in the league in your eyes? When in the last 10 years can you say that MB has done anything to build a playoff contender? He has made good lateral moves and Weber has worked out better than could have been expected at the time. Subban had more value than Weber did and should have gotten additional assets, a top 5 GM would have gotten more. So tell me exactly what has MB done to build a true playoff contending team?

we havent made the playoffs in 8 years!? I must have a bad memory. We made the final last year. The trades and signings were fantastic

Again, give me 3 names of available GMs that are available and French. I'll do you one better give 5 names of current GMs from the 32 teams that you think are better than MB. MB is one of the top GMs in the league

3 minutes ago, seth505 said:

I don't see the correlation of this meaning Suzuki would sign an offer sheet.  Also, what about the flip side of that, if KK gets the 6mil, then the same agent will want insane amounts for the more valuable Suzuki and drive him somewhere else if he doesn't get it.

yeah Suzuki should be fine and if he play like he has, we will happily match any offer or get 4 1st round picks! lol

 

4 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I’m not sure if that actually doesn’t make the case not to match. Matching sends the message that using OS’s as a negotiating tactic works. Not matching says try it if you dare, but be prepared to play for that team if the offer is beyond reason. Personally I would prefer we send the second message.

yes exactly, by not matching we make the point that we're not going to be pushed around into anything. You make a bad offer, you can keep the player and we'll take your picks, you made a reasonable offer, we'll match 

[ramcharger440]

8 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

For those willing to let KK gofor such a small return guess who else on Montreal is represented by KK's agents, Nick Suzuki! So guess who else will be signing an OS if MB tries to lowball him too, that's right Nick Suzuki! This one OS has so many ramifications if not matched that it just makes no sense not to match and deal with the cap later.

Easy there! you have no idea how Suzuki's contract is going to pan out. Suzuki is a much better player than KK is in my opinion and you are blowing KK'S value way out of proportion! the way you are going on it is like we are letting Gretzky go or something like that! KK is a young center who has not found his way yet but may become a good 2nd line center, Suzuki looks to be a first line center already so really no comparison.

[campabee82]

1 minute ago, seth505 said:

I don't see the correlation of this meaning Suzuki would sign an offer sheet.  Also, what about the flip side of that, if KK gets the 6mil, then the same agent will want insane amounts for the more valuable Suzuki and drive him somewhere else if he doesn't get it.

 

1 minute ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I’m not sure if that actually doesn’t make the case not to match. Matching sends the message that using OS’s as a negotiating tactic works. Not matching says try it if you dare, but be prepared to play for that team if the offer is beyond reason. Personally I would prefer we send the second message.

According to Freidman KK only signed the OS because MB was lowballing him, if MB had been offering a fair deal in the first place then he would have signed with the Habs and everything would be a moot point. The agents were trying to negotiate and MB took his typical combative "take or leave it" stance so KK and his agents signed the OS. This is again on MB for being a moron and trying to play hardball, can we say Markov and Radulov situation again!