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NHL: Shaw backs cousin Jacob Panetta amid racial gesture fallout (yahoo.com)

Did the media and hockey world condemn too quickly in this case? If there is video of this kid doing the tough guy stance ( as he puts it) with other players, then IMO it changes the whole narrative. I watched the initial video (all of which were poor quality BTW) and struggled to see any racial gestures myself. I did see him do the bulk up move which i think was the instigating factor, but i didn't see him bring his gloves up to his armpits,,, which to me would be a monkey imitation. 

Initially i was all for this kid being suspended, but now i'm not so sure. I can recall Lucic doing a monkey imitation when he coward away from Laroque,, and that one was obvious, as you could also see his lips making monkey sounds. The video i've seen in this incident really leaves a lot to be desired if that's what punishment is being based on.

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28 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

NHL: Shaw backs cousin Jacob Panetta amid racial gesture fallout (yahoo.com)

Did the media and hockey world condemn too quickly in this case? If there is video of this kid doing the tough guy stance ( as he puts it) with other players, then IMO it changes the whole narrative. I watched the initial video (all of which were poor quality BTW) and struggled to see any racial gestures myself. I did see him do the bulk up move which i think was the instigating factor, but i didn't see him bring his gloves up to his armpits,,, which to me would be a monkey imitation. 

Initially i was all for this kid being suspended, but now i'm not so sure. I can recall Lucic doing a monkey imitation when he coward away from Laroque,, and that one was obvious, as you could also see his lips making monkey sounds. The video i've seen in this incident really leaves a lot to be desired if that's what punishment is being based on.

It's a tough one for sure. Like you, I watched the low-quality footage on Twitter/Youtube and to me it's essentially inconclusive. If anything, the whole thing reminded me a little of Fiddler trolling Bieksa:

 

 

On the other hand, the players' reactions during and after the tussle does suggest there was some sort of incident (there's a longer video with higher-quality TV footage on Youtube). One of Subban's teammates also punches Panetta from behind and is really getting into it. Additionally, it's a 0-0 game in OT, which usually isn't the time to 'send a message' unless there's a real reason for it. All that's not real evidence though, so I'm just speculating. Here's the longer video:

 

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6 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

It's a tough one for sure. Like you, I watched the low-quality footage on Twitter/Youtube and to me it's essentially inconclusive. If anything, the whole thing reminded me a little of Fiddler trolling Bieksa:

 

 

On the other hand, the players' reactions during and after the tussle does suggest there was some sort of incident (there's a longer video with higher-quality TV footage on Youtube). One of Subban's teammates also punches Panetta from behind and is really getting into it. Additionally, it's a 0-0 game in OT, which usually isn't the time to 'send a message' unless there's a real reason for it. All that's not real evidence though, so I'm just speculating. Here's the longer video:

 

its funny I thought of the exact clip because he's sort of making the 'tough guy' thing too but you COULD see it as a monkey gesture, obviously that wasn't the case as the player wasn't a visible minority of any kind. 

Everything is so charged these days no one gets the benefit of the doubt. Who knows what happened, I haven't seen anything conclusive. 

The one thing we can all be happy about is that we all agree that IF such a gesture was racially motivated that there's no place for it in our game or in our society. And that's without me demonizing anyone, kid could still be a good person who lost control of himself and did something stupid, but regardless, that's not acceptable behaviour, PERIOD. 

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JMHO, but it's a matter of perception. If I, as a white guy, accidently bumped into a person of colour, then that person could accuse me of being a racist. On the other hand, I would see it as just accidently bumping into another person. 

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Who knows what Panetta's intent was. But regardless, pretty dumb to make gestures that could be interpreted as monkey/gorilla movements directed at a black player. You leave yourself open for this as being racist. Also have to wonder based on reactions of those on the ice whether he was saying something or making noises that made it clear to them this was meant to be based on race.

Whether the Panetta incident was purposely racist or just stupid, I don't think it discounts the point that there is a problem with racism in hockey. There are other incidents affecting other players recently and going back a few years where this was apparent, and I'm sure any black player or player of non-caucasian ethnicity could tell you this. I remember PK Suban being here and seeing Mike Richards mouth a racist name at him on camera. You heard stories of players and coaches including Therrien treating him in ways that they would not have treated most white players of the same stature... things like "PK needs to learn his role" or "we want PK to be a better human being" or "stop showing us up and just play hockey." I said it at the time, but even if PK was cocky, he was a star player and he backed it up on the ice. You never saw anyone telling Ovechkin to quit showboating. You never saw Ovi's coach bashing him in the media as needing to learn lessons and be more humble. Whether they want to admit it or not, people in hockey treated PK differently because he was black. We've seen bananas tossed on the ice at games to players like Wayne Simmonds and others. It's clearly a phenomenon in hockey and if you listen, most black players have outright told us that it happens to them.

So end of the day, don't really feel bad for Panetta. Maybe he meant to do it, maybe he didn't. But frankly, just don't put yourself in that position. The fact that his teammates didn't stand up for him was telling. The fact Subban and his teammates reacted as they did was telling. Everyone on the ice interpreted it as being a racist gesture, so hard to believe it wasn't. Said the same thing about Mailloux... yeah, kids sometimes have growing up to do and make mistakes they regret, but it's time people, fans, media, coaches, etc. start thinking more about the victims than the violators. The mindset is always we don't want to damage the potential career or life of a person who made a mistake, but how about thinking about what we can do better to help black players get a fair shot and not have to put up with crap like this? How about we think about the woman whose privacy was violated by Mailloux instead of just about when Mailloux's pennance can be considered done? When it's a young white male of privileged stature who is the aggressor, society is very quick to empathize with that person and figure out how to make things alright for them. Same can't be said for people of other race, sex, and so on.

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Just to add on to what I wrote, if anyone doesn't think systemic discrimination exists, here's another example of a different type:

Many members of the English media are upset because Francois Legault (who claims there is no systemic racism in Quebec) has yet to congratulate Quebecer Kent Hughes on his appointment as GM of the Habs. Maybe an oversight? Not quite. Legault sent out his congratulations to Chantal Machabee when she was named VP communications just before Hughes was hired, and Legault's government also sent out a congratulatory message to Emilie Castonguay on her recent hiring as assistant GM in Vancouver. So very clear here that Legault is willing to congratulate people on their hirings when their first language is French and when they're names are Francophone. But if you're a bilingual anglophone, you don't get the same respect from Legault and you're considered a second-tier Quebecer. The Premier himself practices systemic discrimination, so how do you not expect it to be present in society and in hockey?

This isn't to say Francophones don't suffer the same thing. Plenty of stories of French players being mocked or called derogatory names too, and that too needs to stop. But this starts at the top. Elected leaders need to be held to a higher standard on this. The NHL front offices need to have a stronger response to issues like racism, abusive behavior from people in charge, and player safety. They're more than willing to wash their hands of anything until it becomes a PR nightmare for them, then they try to act concerned and brush it under the table. I believe it was Akim Aliu who said that when his story came out, the NHL was forced to make statements and meet with him, and as soon as the story went away, he hasn't heard from the league and they haven't followed through on any of the promises they made him. Time for people to demand more from Legault, Bettman, Molson, and others in power.

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6 minutes ago, maas_art said:

The videos were totally inconclusive to me but based on this suspension i assume they were much more clear to the officials.  

In the video, he clearly makes a gesture. You can't tell from the video whether it was meant to be racist or not, but

1. He does it to a black player

2. Everyone around him reacted like it was a racist gesture.

So yeah, would have to figure it was more clear on the ice. Best-case scenario for Panetta is that he did something so dumb that everyone thought he was being racist even if he didn't intend to be. Either way, he needs to be educated on how insensitive his gesture was. And to boot, the entire issue was actively in the media for another guy in the AHL having done something similar just a few days beforehand, so not like he couldn't have seen this coming.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

In the video, he clearly makes a gesture. You can't tell from the video whether it was meant to be racist or not, but

1. He does it to a black player

2. Everyone around him reacted like it was a racist gesture.

So yeah, would have to figure it was more clear on the ice. Best-case scenario for Panetta is that he did something so dumb that everyone thought he was being racist even if he didn't intend to be. Either way, he needs to be educated on how insensitive his gesture was. And to boot, the entire issue was actively in the media for another guy in the AHL having done something similar just a few days beforehand, so not like he couldn't have seen this coming.

Apparently, any gesture can be contrude  as racist slur nowadays. 

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9 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Apparently, any gesture can be contrude  as racist slur nowadays. 

That's a bit of a catch-all for what happened here. We've seen players pretending to eat bananas in front of black opponents, we've seen them do actions to look like they were monkeys. This falls in that category. Again, no idea what was going on inside Panetta's head. But the fact that his teammates, opponents, and refs all reacted like it was meant to be racist suggests that at the very least, Panetta did something that everyone else thought was intended to be racist. So why even go there? Why do something that could be easily interpreted that way?

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