NHL 2022 Draft

[claremont]

7 hours ago, maas_art said:

Yeah in most cases if we were to trade 3oa I think HuGo would want at least a top 7 pick back and a top prospect or at least a young player.  The idea was floated. 3oa for Philly 6oa and Sanheim for example - who is not that young anymore but would still provide us with 5+ solid years most likely. 

 

On 4/29/2022 at 12:35 PM, jennifer_rocket said:

Wacky trade idea (just fooling around here).

Another wacky trade idea!

Do we have a double dip option? With all the speculation on the Shea Weber Contract and what it is worth to Arizona to meet their cheap ownership's cap floor during their arena and team restructuring, what is the value of that contract? Value thought to be a 2nd or 3rd round pick. If Arizona wins the lottery and we are relegated to 2nd or 3rd overall, could we see Arizona flip their 1st overall in exchange for our 1st round pick (2nd or 3rd overall) plus the Shea Weber Contract (with maybe Arizona throwing in a 3rd or 4th rounder as a balance?

[maas_art]

3 minutes ago, claremont said:

 

Another wacky trade idea!

Do we have a double dip option? With all the speculation on the Shea Weber Contract and what it is worth to Arizona to meet their cheap ownership's cap floor during their arena and team restructuring, what is the value of that contract? Value thought to be a 2nd or 3rd round pick. If Arizona wins the lottery and we are relegated to 2nd or 3rd overall, could we see Arizona flip their 1st overall in exchange for our 1st round pick (2nd or 3rd overall) plus the Shea Weber Contract (with maybe Arizona throwing in a 3rd or 4th rounder as a balance?

Maybe. 

I think that contract has immense value to a team like Arizona.  He's going to be paid:  $3m.  $1m. $1m $1m.  Thats a total of $6m.  His cap hit is $7.9m - thats a total of $31.6m towards a cap.  They (The coyotes) get $30 million dollars of free cap over 4 years. Thats got to be worth a ton to them.    Not enough for a 1st rounder alone but if its a case of 1st vs 2nd or 3rd? In a year like this one? Maybe. 

Lets put it this way: I dont think they hang up on you if you make that suggestion.   

That said, I hope next tuesday we win the lottery ourselves & can focus on other things. Id be really really shocked if we gave up 1st overall.  3rd, I could see us moving. 

[claremont]

a summary of the U18 championships by sportsnet - I agree with most of his comments other than him being a little over enthusiastic on Cooley. 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/u18-championship-prospect-notebook-lottery-team-targets-and-nhl-draft-gems/?fbclid=IwAR1SlaIHZnbXxqfhG5rMWhx10OcrXw1u5KZf9cXv0gAnr28nvd9Qd0Brz3A

 

[maas_art]

50 minutes ago, claremont said:

a summary of the U18 championships by sportsnet - I agree with most of his comments other than him being a little over enthusiastic on Cooley. 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/u18-championship-prospect-notebook-lottery-team-targets-and-nhl-draft-gems/?fbclid=IwAR1SlaIHZnbXxqfhG5rMWhx10OcrXw1u5KZf9cXv0gAnr28nvd9Qd0Brz3A

 

Where do you rank Cooley in this year's draft?

Im by no means an expert on prospects so most of my "opinions" are formed simply by listening to as many "experts" as possible speak.  The sense I get is:

- Wright: as close to a "sure thing" as you can get - probably at worst a #2 centre, at best a #1 - Wont ever win an art ross but may win selkes

- Cooley - could flame out but most likely is at worst an exploitation scorer and is one of the only guys in this year's crop who has a chance at being "elite" 

- Savoie - Best centre left. Size is a concern but skills are there. 

- Nemec - best defensman in this year's draft. Could be a #1, almost certainly a #2-3. 

- Slafkovsky - Good solid scoring winger. Probably a sure thing but a less important role/position than the other top 5 picks.

 

Ideally, obviously, id like us to take Wright or Cooley but if you prefer someone else, why? 

 

 

[claremont]

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Where do you rank Cooley in this year's draft?

Im by no means an expert on prospects so most of my "opinions" are formed simply by listening to as many "experts" as possible speak.  The sense I get is:

- Wright: as close to a "sure thing" as you can get - probably at worst a #2 centre, at best a #1 - Wont ever win an art ross but may win selkes

- Cooley - could flame out but most likely is at worst an exploitation scorer and is one of the only guys in this year's crop who has a chance at being "elite" 

- Savoie - Best centre left. Size is a concern but skills are there. 

- Nemec - best defensman in this year's draft. Could be a #1, almost certainly a #2-3. 

- Slafkovsky - Good solid scoring winger. Probably a sure thing but a less important role/position than the other top 5 picks.

Ideally, obviously, id like us to take Wright or Cooley but if you prefer someone else, why? 

I like most, strongly desire a Centre that can score or be top line / 2nd line and if we don’t get Wright but the brain trust decides it’s Cooley or Savoie then I’ll embrace that but my ranking is Wright , Nemec and then Cooley / Jiricek as I am backing off Slafkovsky and Savoie - any one of these 6 is a good pick 

here’s why I am not so high on Cooley as others;

1) He has played all exhibition games against USHL or NCAA teams with the U18 program so points / standings / pressure doesn’t  matter 

2) Cooley plays with with some fairly talented players - just look how many usntdp players are ranked in the first round - those players elevate his game vs other players don’t quite have his team mates talent pool

3) I expected Cooley to be miles ahead and carry his team to the U18 victory in the world championships - granted the Swedish goalie stole the game but I watched the Czechia semi final and final on tape and there were several players just as good IMO as Cooley

4) Cooley no question has elite vision, great puck handling skills but he’s a bit on the small but quick side. I kind of worry about his durability 5-10 174 - is he better suited to a winger?

5) USA writer hype gets a little overblown 

So if we do indeed pick Cooley then I hope we can get a decent RHD as the next pick or a scorer - I get the merits of picking Cooley as top centers are rare. I’m really hoping Trikozov is available at our Calgary pick. 

[maas_art]

27 minutes ago, claremont said:

I like most, strongly desire a Centre that can score or be top line / 2nd line and if we don’t get Wright but the brain trust decides it’s Cooley or Savoie then I’ll embrace that but my ranking is Wright , Nemec and then Cooley / Jiricek as I am backing off Slafkovsky and Savoie - any one of these 6 is a good pick 

here’s why I am not so high on Cooley as others;

1) He has played all exhibition games against USHL or NCAA teams with the U18 program so points / standings / pressure doesn’t  matter 

2) Cooley plays with with some fairly talented players - just look how many usntdp players are ranked in the first round - those players elevate his game vs other players don’t quite have his team mates talent pool

3) I expected Cooley to be miles ahead and carry his team to the U18 victory in the world championships - granted the Swedish goalie stole the game but I watched the Czechia semi final and final on tape and there were several players just as good IMO as Cooley

4) Cooley no question has elite vision, great puck handling skills but he’s a bit on the small but quick side. I kind of worry about his durability 5-10 174 - is he better suited to a winger?

5) USA writer hype gets a little overblown 

So if we do indeed pick Cooley then I hope we can get a decent RHD as the next pick or a scorer - I get the merits of picking Cooley as top centers are rare. I’m really hoping Trikozov is available at our Calgary pick. 

Thanks for the thorough explanation. Some good points to ponder for sure.  I just hope we choose wisely.  If we take Wright & he ends up being ROR while Cooley turns into Aho or something, well at least we got a good player out of it. What id hate is to pick the next Benoit Pouliot or Gilbert Brule when we could have had Kopitar, Statsny or Letang etc... 

[BigTed3]

^^ IMO, Cooley has great hands and vision but has also shown he can maneuver through traffic. Savoie has actually shown the same thing and to be honest, I'm not all that concerned about their size. My concern with players like this is if a coach will be scared of their size and move them to wing, but I think both guys can have success as a center if given the opportunity. Ultimately, I think Cooley and Savoie both have more puck skill than Wright. Where Wright has an advantage in my view is that he's more solid on his skates, not only in terms of his size but in terms of his stride. He also seems to be a better defensive player but I think Cooley has gained on him in this category as the year has gone on. To me, Cooley is the clear #2 here in the draft and there's a reasonable chance he ends up having a better career than Wright. Having watched a bit of all three guys, the best comparables I've seen are Ryan O'Reilly for Wright, Barzal for Savoie, and Brayden Point for Cooley, albeit I've also seen him compared to the likes of Tyler Seguin, Mitch Marner, and Dylan Larkin. So I mean, pick your poison as to who you think is the most valuable of the three.

Other comparables I think fit:

- Zibanejad for Frank Nazar

- Sergachev for Mintyukov

- Jonathan Drouin for Brad Lambert

- Dave Andreychuk for Slafkovsky

- Caufield for Isaac Howard

- Zadina for Kemell

- Quinn Hughes or Sam Girard for Lane Hutson

- Radek Bonk for Nathan Gaucher

- Kevin Hatcher for Jiricek

- Roman Josi for Nemec

- Tomas Hertl for Trikozov

 

 

[BigTed3]

Just a reminder that if you're a Habs fan, you're hoping for that Calgary 1st rounder to be as good as possible. Because they won their division, the best it can be is 25th overall. If Calgary makes the conference finals, it's at best 29th overall. If Calgary gets knocked out beforehand, then every other division winner (the other 3 finished better than Calgary) who loses before the conference finals improves the Calgary pick by one spot. For now, Calgary is down 2-1, Florida is down 2-1, and Carolina is tied 2-2. If all three of those teams get bounced, the pick is at worst 26th. If Colorado also gets bounced next round, it's 25th. So we should be pulling for all those upsets, it'll make that second 1st rounder better for us.

[egee1953]

Last year the Habs drafted 30th, despite having the 16th best record (18th best number of points) due to their playoff run. Does the same criteria not exist this year ? For example, if Washington went on a run and made it to the SC Final and lost, would they not pick 31st ?

I'm thinking that the first 8 teams eliminated in this year's playoffs would get picks 17 to 24, based on their total points. Under that scenario, the Calgary pick could be as high as 19 (Colorado, Leafs, Carolina, Minny, and Florida all lose their first round match ups).

Would appreciate someone filling me in. Thanks.

[habsisme]

So I think I'm drafting

1) Wright

2) Cooley 

3) Nemec 

[BigTed3]

10 hours ago, egee1953 said:

Last year the Habs drafted 30th, despite having the 16th best record (18th best number of points) due to their playoff run. Does the same criteria not exist this year ? For example, if Washington went on a run and made it to the SC Final and lost, would they not pick 31st ?

I'm thinking that the first 8 teams eliminated in this year's playoffs would get picks 17 to 24, based on their total points. Under that scenario, the Calgary pick could be as high as 19 (Colorado, Leafs, Carolina, Minny, and Florida all lose their first round match ups).

Would appreciate someone filling me in. Thanks.

Same rules as last year... the exceptions apply to teams that make the final four AND teams that won their divisions. So final four teams draft 29-32. But if a division winner like Calgary gets knocked out before the final four, they can still only draft 25-28. So best we can do is 25 and that's if Calgary gets knocked out in the first two rounds AND Florida, Carolina, and Colorado all get knocked out before the final four as well. If Calgary and two of them are out before the final four, they get the 26 pick. If Calgary and one other team, it's 27, and so on.

[BigTed3]

10 hours ago, habsisme said:

So I think I'm drafting

1) Wright

2) Cooley 

3) Nemec 

I'm pretty much there with you. For me, it's Wright, Cooley, and then Nemec and Jiricek at 3 and 4 in some order. I keep going back and forth on which D man I like there. Nemec is likely the better overall player and better transition player, and Jiricek is a bigger physical presence and better in the O zone right now. Tough call. As much as Wright is the consensus #1 pick and the safest bet, I have to say that I like the potential upsides of Cooley and Nemec more. I think both guys have a shot at being the best player picked in this draft when all is said and done. Would love to get Wright too, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't feel like it's as exciting a pick. Ditto for Slafkovsky. I feel like we know what Wright and Slafkovsky can do already and that there's less room for growth there despite the fact their floors are pretty high already. But could Nemec be the next Markov, Makar, Karlsson, etc.? And while we have lots of talent in our D prospect pool, we don't yet have a clearcut #1 guy nor a clear top-pairing RHD. So he's still a position of need on top of that.

[egee1953]

21 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Same rules as last year... the exceptions apply to teams that make the final four AND teams that won their divisions. So final four teams draft 29-32. But if a division winner like Calgary gets knocked out before the final four, they can still only draft 25-28. So best we can do is 25 and that's if Calgary gets knocked out in the first two rounds AND Florida, Carolina, and Colorado all get knocked out before the final four as well. If Calgary and two of them are out before the final four, they get the 26 pick. If Calgary and one other team, it's 27, and so on.

Appreciate the explanation.

i also like Wright / Cooley / Nemec as our pick, dependant on our selection position. Although kinda reminds me of 1980 with Wickenheiser / Savard / Babych, three very similiar comparables. Let's hope things turn out better this time around.

[KRH]

If we get the first overall pick, I'm taking Nemec.

I have some concerns about Wright.

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, KRH said:

If we get the first overall pick, I'm taking Nemec.

I have some concerns about Wright.

It's not an unreasonable choice. But if you're doing that, then the other thought is whether you try to trade down a spot or two, risk losing the guy you want, but potentially gaining another asset. For example, let's say you're at 1 and Arizona's at 3. Would you trade 1 for 3 and another 1st rounder in the 20-30 range, especially if Wright's not your guy?

[maas_art]

13 hours ago, habsisme said:

So I think I'm drafting

1) Wright

2) Cooley 

3) Nemec 

Deifinitely the 3 players Id be leaning towards too.

Id love to know how HuGo ranks them.  If we win the lottery tomorrow & get 1st OVA. who do they go with?  

Wright is pretty near a sure thing, at best Bergeron, at worst ROR... thats tough to pass up.

Cooley could be the better player, an elite scorer, but has a much higher chance (that wright) of flaming out

Nemec could be Josi 2.0... thats tough to pass up no matter what your centre depth is like... 

 

I think, based on everything ive read, Id go in the order you have listed, but I could conceivably see any of those guys going in any order possible in the top 3. 

[habsisme]

4 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Deifinitely the 3 players Id be leaning towards too.

Id love to know how HuGo ranks them.  If we win the lottery tomorrow & get 1st OVA. who do they go with?  

Wright is pretty near a sure thing, at best Bergeron, at worst ROR... thats tough to pass up.

Cooley could be the better player, an elite scorer, but has a much higher chance (that wright) of flaming out

Nemec could be Josi 2.0... thats tough to pass up no matter what your centre depth is like... 

 

I think, based on everything ive read, Id go in the order you have listed, but I could conceivably see any of those guys going in any order possible in the top 3. 

damn I didn't realize it was already tomorrow! Very excited now lol!

Yeah I mean I'm no scout, I'm basing my opinion on what I read (including what I read here). I'm still hoping for Wright because it just solidifies are C spot for the next 10 years. Having Suzuki almost makes this decision easier because the C doesn't have to be ELITE, a solid 2-way 60 point player would be awesome to pair with him up the middle. Those are my three, but I wouldn't be shocked if someone thinks Slafkovsky or Jiricek belong in the top 3. I guess the HuGo has to go with what they feel is best, but I would still be surprised if Wright doesn't go #1

18 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

It's not an unreasonable choice. But if you're doing that, then the other thought is whether you try to trade down a spot or two, risk losing the guy you want, but potentially gaining another asset. For example, let's say you're at 1 and Arizona's at 3. Would you trade 1 for 3 and another 1st rounder in the 20-30 range, especially if Wright's not your guy?

yes, if they really don't think Wrights their guy, absolutely trade down. To be fair though, if they didn't want Wright I would be a little worried

[maas_art]

6 minutes ago, habsisme said:

damn I didn't realize it was already tomorrow! Very excited now lol!

Right? Im glad we dont have to wait for months or something. 

 

6 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Yeah I mean I'm no scout, I'm basing my opinion on what I read (including what I read here). I'm still hoping for Wright because it just solidifies are C spot for the next 10 years. Having Suzuki almost makes this decision easier because the C doesn't have to be ELITE, a solid 2-way 60 point player would be awesome to pair with him up the middle. Those are my three, but I wouldn't be shocked if someone thinks Slafkovsky or Jiricek belong in the top 3. I guess the HuGo has to go with what they feel is best, but I would still be surprised if Wright doesn't go #1

I do agree. At the end of the day, im pretty sure no matter who has 1st, they probably take wright.  Apart from the fact that Wright just looks like a can't fail prospect (and yes, i know there's no such thing but there are guys that are really really close) Cooley is a bit smaller and also has played his whole career on the US development team. There's concerns that its more difficult to assess a guy in that situation.    And not that it should matter, but Wright probably steps right on to the team next year, Cooley is apparently committed to college (although technically he could change his mind that seems unlikely). 

The idea of Suzuki - Wright - Dvorak/Evans/Poehling down the middle is a pretty amazing thought.
Age wise that is:
22, 18, 26, 25, 23 respectively. 

[BigTed3]

1 minute ago, maas_art said:

Right? Im glad we dont have to wait for months or something. 

 

I do agree. At the end of the day, im pretty sure no matter who has 1st, they probably take wright.  Apart from the fact that Wright just looks like a can't fail prospect (and yes, i know there's no such thing but there are guys that are really really close) Cooley is a bit smaller and also has played his whole career on the US development team. There's concerns that its more difficult to assess a guy in that situation.    And not that it should matter, but Wright probably steps right on to the team next year, Cooley is apparently committed to college (although technically he could change his mind that seems unlikely). 

Cooley is committed to college (after already changing his mind on which school once). But he's on record as saying he thinks he can step onto an NHL roster next year right away and would be looking to do that if a team thought he could help. I'd personally prefer to see him play one year in college and then sign him after next season.

[habsisme]

11 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Cooley is committed to college (after already changing his mind on which school once). But he's on record as saying he thinks he can step onto an NHL roster next year right away and would be looking to do that if a team thought he could help. I'd personally prefer to see him play one year in college and then sign him after next season.

I prefer to see him play in college too. Usually college players make me nervous cause the rules make little sense, but in his case there is no way he spends 4 years in college

[claremont]

8 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Cooley is committed to college (after already changing his mind on which school once). But he's on record as saying he thinks he can step onto an NHL roster next year right away and would be looking to do that if a team thought he could help. I'd personally prefer to see him play one year in college and then sign him after next season.

I’d like to see Cooley play at least one year in college after all, he hasn’t really competed in anything that matters for the last year except for the U18 championships and likely the upcoming world junior championships both of which are short stints. 

[H_T_L]

Lottery draw is at 6:30 tonight.

[jennifer_rocket]

Today is the BIG day!  Where are we gonna draft???

[maas_art]

2 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Today is the BIG day!  Where are we gonna draft???

i have a good feeling about 1st overall.  I know its 50% chance we draft 3rd but i have high hopes.   Some good consolation prizes this year - with guys like Cooley or Nemec possibly having a higher ceiling than Wright but I sure would rather get a 'sure thing' even if he ends up being only the 3rd or 4th best player in the draft its nearly guaranteed he'll be (at worst) a RNH or ROR.  I can live with that.  

[kinot-2]

Montreal has a 25.5-per-cent chance of securing the No. 1 pick, even though the team has 18.5-per-cent odds to win the first draw specifically. That’s where the new lottery restrictions benefit the Canadiens this year since Montreal will still retain the top selection if any of the bottom five teams win the lottery.