Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

Former & Retired Habs


kinot-2
 Share

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ Again, if you believe the rumors (and who knows...), Subban did have offers from several teams but was set on picking his spot to play. He reportedly only wanted to play for Montreal or Toronto and neither one of those teams made him an offer.

The other debate that's going to come up in the future is whether Subban has done enough in his career to make the HHOF. At his peak, he was one of the best D men in the game for several years, but he did decline fairly rapidly after injuries in the past few years. That said, only one Norris winner who is eligible for the HHOF has not made it in to date, and that's Randy Carlyle. Ever other eligible Norris winner has already been inducted. Will be interesting to see if players like Subban, Doughty, and Burns are elected down the line or whether they buck the trend. Subban is a polarizing character, so it may come down to who's on the voting panel at the time.

Being polarizing did definitely hold up Lindros, whom myself is still a no. As to Subban it's also a no. Not because of who he is a just don't think he has a body of work that was strong enough. Doughty is still playing and has won a cup. Burns like Subban not enough significant years to me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember was at work and being told he got traded for Weber . 
 

Is that all I asked . 
yup

i was a little surprised Montreal didn’t get more considering the age differential but not surprised he was traded . 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.habsfanatics.com/Subban-possible-return-to-the-Canadiens-Hughes-finally-speaks-out-and-reveals-that-he-has-considered-the-option-158116&s=23

Check out Kent Hughes' response to whether the Habs have considered bringing him back:
 

"Yes, but... The priority for us was to go out and get players who can help us in the future." - Kent Hughes


Once again, the Habs GM was very transparent. He admits that he did consider the option of signing Subban and bringing him back to Montreal, but in the end, his team concluded that he's not the type of player the organization needs right now (and that's nothing against Subban).
 

"I've had contact with his agent, but we're looking at a younger defenceman." - Kent Hughes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

https://www.habsfanatics.com/Subban-possible-return-to-the-Canadiens-Hughes-finally-speaks-out-and-reveals-that-he-has-considered-the-option-158116&s=23

Check out Kent Hughes' response to whether the Habs have considered bringing him back:
 

"Yes, but... The priority for us was to go out and get players who can help us in the future." - Kent Hughes


Once again, the Habs GM was very transparent. He admits that he did consider the option of signing Subban and bringing him back to Montreal, but in the end, his team concluded that he's not the type of player the organization needs right now (and that's nothing against Subban).
 

"I've had contact with his agent, but we're looking at a younger defenceman." - Kent Hughes

Yep, the transparency is very refreshing.

There's a lot of balls in play here too. If someone had enquired about Savard & we had moved him, I could have seen Hughes look harder at PK.  but with Savard seemingly here for a bit + Barron hopefully taking on a bigger role, and we already have wideman as an insurance policy... I dont see a fit for PK here.

I do think that if Hughes could get a sub 25 year old RHD he would jump at the chance. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Yep, the transparency is very refreshing.

There's a lot of balls in play here too. If someone had enquired about Savard & we had moved him, I could have seen Hughes look harder at PK.  but with Savard seemingly here for a bit + Barron hopefully taking on a bigger role, and we already have wideman as an insurance policy... I dont see a fit for PK here.

I do think that if Hughes could get a sub 25 year old RHD he would jump at the chance. 

Yeah it would have been tough to justify bringing in another older player if the goal is to get younger and have the team grow together we already have a couple of older guys to work with the kids. Perhaps if some moves could have been made as you say Savard might have been a good one to move but he may be a better guy to have work with a kid hard to say?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Regis22 said:

I remember was at work and being told he got traded for Weber . 
 

Is that all I asked . 
yup

i was a little surprised Montreal didn’t get more considering the age differential but not surprised he was traded . 

I will probably never get over the fact that Edmonton and MTL were (confirmed by the Oilers) working on a deal that included Draitsaiitl coming back but MB wanted a better dman than they were prepared to give up as part of the package. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Regis22 said:

I remember was at work and being told he got traded for Weber . 
 

Is that all I asked . 
yup

i was a little surprised Montreal didn’t get more considering the age differential but not surprised he was traded . 
 

 

I was in Vancouver, and my 1st thought was, "Who else did we get?" 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weber was a great return for Sooby. Weber leaves a lasting impression of a true team leader in the youngsters that were in that Montreal locker room. I think his legacy will live on much longer than Subban's ever would have. Not looking for an argument - just my opinion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, maas_art said:

I will probably never get over the fact that Edmonton and MTL were (confirmed by the Oilers) working on a deal that included Draitsaiitl coming back but MB wanted a better dman than they were prepared to give up as part of the package. 

What the..? I had never heard that!  That’s just depressing. I knew MB was bad but that’s a whole new level of ineptness.

Sheds tear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, HabsRuleForever said:

What the..? I had never heard that!  That’s just depressing. I knew MB was bad but that’s a whole new level of ineptness.

Sheds tear.

Yeah, terrible move in hindsight. In all fairness though (and if memory serves), the trade was discussed at a time when Subban had just produced about the same number of points as Draisaitl. In other words, Draisaitl wasn't as established as he is now and there was a lot of talk of him being carried by McDavid etc. That perception has changed since then but it's not like Draisaitl was considered elite from the get-go, he only truly came into his own after we traded PK. I mean acquiring a 50-point center from a country that's not exactly known for producing a whole lot of elite hockey players in exchange for a recent Norris winner right in his prime isn't a move without risk, so I'm not sure we can really blame MB for wanting more in return than what the Oilers offered. It does look stupid today though, no doubt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

Yeah, terrible move in hindsight. In all fairness though (and if memory serves), the trade was discussed at a time when Subban had just produced about the same number of points as Draisaitl. In other words, Draisaitl wasn't as established as he is now and there was a lot of talk of him being carried by McDavid etc. That perception has changed since then but it's not like Draisaitl was considered elite from the get-go, he only truly came into his own after we traded PK. I mean acquiring a 50-point center from a country that's not exactly known for producing a whole lot of elite hockey players in exchange for a recent Norris winner right in his prime isn't a move without risk, so I'm not sure we can really blame MB for wanting more in return than what the Oilers offered. It does look stupid today though, no doubt.

Yeah I realized that as I was posting however it just put a capital S on how poopy his tenure was.

 

Triple low 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HabsRuleForever said:

What the..? I had never heard that!  That’s just depressing. I knew MB was bad but that’s a whole new level of ineptness.

Sheds tear.

 

1 hour ago, ChiLla said:

Yeah, terrible move in hindsight. In all fairness though (and if memory serves), the trade was discussed at a time when Subban had just produced about the same number of points as Draisaitl. In other words, Draisaitl wasn't as established as he is now and there was a lot of talk of him being carried by McDavid etc. That perception has changed since then but it's not like Draisaitl was considered elite from the get-go, he only truly came into his own after we traded PK. I mean acquiring a 50-point center from a country that's not exactly known for producing a whole lot of elite hockey players in exchange for a recent Norris winner right in his prime isn't a move without risk, so I'm not sure we can really blame MB for wanting more in return than what the Oilers offered. It does look stupid today though, no doubt.

For sure. We can easily say we'd all do it, 1 for 1 NOW but at the time I would have also wanted more for PK than just Draisaitl,  No one knew he could play centre that well then either. 

I remember Chicago and MTl purportedly haveing a deal in place Plekanec for Toews + (before Toews had played an NHL game) and chicago balked because of the ++.   In hindsight 1 for 1 would have been a steal for Montreal but it was certainly not without risks. Thats why GMs like those throw ins. Limit their risks. Unless they're the one throwing players in like Houle was notorious for. 

9 minutes ago, HabsRuleForever said:

Yeah I realized that as I was posting however it just put a capital S on how poopy his tenure was.

Yeah, Draisaitl had played only one year - 51 points in 72 games (PK had 51 points in 68 games that same year) but there was definitely a belief he (LD) was on his way to being a star.  

The rumour was that we wanted: Draisaitl, Klefbom or Nurse, 4th overall and possibly one other asset.  Edmonton has since said they balked because of Draisailt but at the time the stumbling block was reported as 4th overall or the quality of the defensman coming back.   
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, maas_art said:

 

For sure. We can easily say we'd all do it, 1 for 1 NOW but at the time I would have also wanted more for PK than just Draisaitl,  No one knew he could play centre that well then either. 

I remember Chicago and MTl purportedly haveing a deal in place Plekanec for Toews + (before Toews had played an NHL game) and chicago balked because of the ++.   In hindsight 1 for 1 would have been a steal for Montreal but it was certainly not without risks. Thats why GMs like those throw ins. Limit their risks. Unless they're the one throwing players in like Houle was notorious for. 

Yeah, Draisaitl had played only one year - 51 points in 72 games (PK had 51 points in 68 games that same year) but there was definitely a belief he (LD) was on his way to being a star.  

The rumour was that we wanted: Draisaitl, Klefbom or Nurse, 4th overall and possibly one other asset.  Edmonton has since said they balked because of Draisailt but at the time the stumbling block was reported as 4th overall or the quality of the defensman coming back.   
 

Still weeping but onwards and upwards right!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, habulator said:

Weber was a great return for Sooby. Weber leaves a lasting impression of a true team leader in the youngsters that were in that Montreal locker room. I think his legacy will live on much longer than Subban's ever would have. Not looking for an argument - just my opinion. 

Weber has no legacy either.   Never won a cup, never won the Norris.     Subban never won a cup, did win the Norris.

At the time the trade was made Subban was the younger player, had won a Norris .... you don't trade the younger player who won a Norris for the older Shea Weber straight up.    This isn't a knock about Weber, its that Bergevin didn't get the return he should have .. it should have been Weber + a pick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Weber has no legacy either.   Never won a cup, never won the Norris.     Subban never won a cup, did win the Norris.

At the time the trade was made Subban was the younger player, had won a Norris .... you don't trade the younger player who won a Norris for the older Shea Weber straight up.    This isn't a knock about Weber, its that Bergevin didn't get the return he should have .. it should have been Weber + a pick

Yeah at the time I felt it should have been Weber + Kamenev - who at the time was a top 6 centre prospect & has since pretty much flamed out in the NHL ( I think he's in the KHL now) but even Weber + Fisher would have made sense because it would have helped fill a hole.  Weber for Subban - a switch of #1 RHD for #1 RHD with no other addtiions to the roster was typical MB tinkering.

There's actually a legit chance if we had got out & added a few more players we could have challenged for a cup but we still had the same roster holes with Weber that we did when PK was here. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Weber has no legacy either.   Never won a cup, never won the Norris.     Subban never won a cup, did win the Norris.

At the time the trade was made Subban was the younger player, had won a Norris .... you don't trade the younger player who won a Norris for the older Shea Weber straight up.    This isn't a knock about Weber, its that Bergevin didn't get the return he should have .. it should have been Weber + a pick

The legacy I speak of are not Weber's accomplishments, they are what he brought to the dressing room. Quiet, dignified leadership. Hard work and leading by example. I always think of it in terms of going on a canoe trip with someone. I don't know exactly how fun it would be with Weber, but I can tell you I wouldn't have to go very far with Subban before I'd want off the boat. I'd suppose that would be the same as teammates... 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Weber has no legacy either.   Never won a cup, never won the Norris.     Subban never won a cup, did win the Norris.

At the time the trade was made Subban was the younger player, had won a Norris .... you don't trade the younger player who won a Norris for the older Shea Weber straight up.    This isn't a knock about Weber, its that Bergevin didn't get the return he should have .. it should have been Weber + a pick

They just wanted to get rid of PK, asap before his no trade kicked in. They would have taken even less,  if they had to. Weber straight up, was the best they could get. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think both Subban and Weber leave lasting impacts on Montreal and the fanbase of the Canadiens. I also don't think we need to keep comparing them. Both have stopped playing in the NHL. Both brought something to Montreal.

Subban was exciting on the ice, was important in promoting the game (in my opinion), and made huge charitable donations to Montreal.

Weber, yes, appears to have been very, very respected by his teammates. He was an excellent, steady D-man for our team for years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I think both Subban and Weber leave lasting impacts on Montreal and the fanbase of the Canadiens. I also don't think we need to keep comparing them. Both have stopped playing in the NHL. Both brought something to Montreal.

Subban was exciting on the ice, was important in promoting the game (in my opinion), and made huge charitable donations to Montreal.

Weber, yes, appears to have been very, very respected by his teammates. He was an excellent, steady D-man for our team for years.

Yep that chapter is over on ice anyways, everyone will have an opinion of what or why tings happened But both great players while they played.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I think both Subban and Weber leave lasting impacts on Montreal and the fanbase of the Canadiens. I also don't think we need to keep comparing them. Both have stopped playing in the NHL. Both brought something to Montreal.

Subban was exciting on the ice, was important in promoting the game (in my opinion), and made huge charitable donations to Montreal.

Weber, yes, appears to have been very, very respected by his teammates. He was an excellent, steady D-man for our team for years.

I think we all agree they were both strong players. But for me, the comparisons are normal. They were traded for each other. The comparison is more an assessment of Bergevin as a GM more than the actual players involved. It's the same as when people compare Pacioretty to Suzuki and Tatar or Price vs Halak or Kotkaniemi vs Dvorak. These are assessments of the GM's work and decision-making.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, habulator said:

The legacy I speak of are not Weber's accomplishments, they are what he brought to the dressing room. Quiet, dignified leadership. Hard work and leading by example. I always think of it in terms of going on a canoe trip with someone. I don't know exactly how fun it would be with Weber, but I can tell you I wouldn't have to go very far with Subban before I'd want off the boat. I'd suppose that would be the same as teammates... 

 

^^ :6280:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/21/2022 at 4:33 AM, BigTed3 said:

The other debate that's going to come up in the future is whether Subban has done enough in his career to make the HHOF. At his peak, he was one of the best D men in the game for several years, but he did decline fairly rapidly after injuries in the past few years. That said, only one Norris winner who is eligible for the HHOF has not made it in to date, and that's Randy Carlyle. Ever other eligible Norris winner has already been inducted. Will be interesting to see if players like Subban, Doughty, and Burns are elected down the line or whether they buck the trend. Subban is a polarizing character, so it may come down to who's on the voting panel at the time.

It will be interesting. Neither won a cup, both made it to one final, had similar stats but quite different games. 

I actually think Weber will get it and Subban may not (although Weber wont be eligible for several years after Subban because he isnt technically retired).   Subban won the Norris while Weber never did (runner up 3 times? robbed at least one of those) but as you mentioned, Subban is polarizing while Weber is the prototypical hockey "guy" so i can see him getting in, possibly first ballot. 

Watch them delay PK and then induct them both the same year ;) lol 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

It will be interesting. Neither won a cup, both made it to one final, had similar stats but quite different games. 

I actually think Weber will get it and Subban may not (although Weber wont be eligible for several years after Subban because he isnt technically retired).   Subban won the Norris while Weber never did (runner up 3 times? robbed at least one of those) but as you mentioned, Subban is polarizing while Weber is the prototypical hockey "guy" so i can see him getting in, possibly first ballot. 

Watch them delay PK and then induct them both the same year ;) lol 

Subban also win the Norris in a shortened season when Karlson was hurt early on..After that I don't even think he was nominated again ? Also that year Markov was feeding him beautiful set up passes for the goals which weren't most on the PP.  Weber was consistent for years. Weber was also Captain where he went not a distraction. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...