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Kirby Dach


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Really interested to see how he does here.

3rd overall in 2019.  Like many of the top guys he hasnt had a great start but his number so far:
59 pts in 152NHL Games.

Meanwhile, Jack Hughes (1st overall) is 108 pts in 166 games.  Kaapo Kakko (2nd overall) has 58 points in 157 NHL games.

Hughes came into his own last year. Dach played through a wrist injury and had a worse PPG last year than his first two.  FWIW he was ranked 2nd in chicago's top 25 under 25.

 

At worst, he's probably a 3rd line centre. At best, maybe we found a #2 at least until we "Tank hard for Bedard" and then he can move to the wing :P

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Welcome to the circus!

Haven't really seen him much in Chicago, read up on his ELC years a little though. That wrist fracture derailed his trajectory considerably it seems, let's see how he does here. It's a gamble but I'm okay with that.

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5 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Really interested to see how he does here.

3rd overall in 2019.  Like many of the top guys he hasnt had a great start but his number so far:
59 pts in 152NHL Games.

Meanwhile, Jack Hughes (1st overall) is 108 pts in 166 games.  Kaapo Kakko (2nd overall) has 58 points in 157 NHL games.

Hughes came into his own last year. Dach played through a wrist injury and had a worse PPG last year than his first two.  FWIW he was ranked 2nd in chicago's top 25 under 25.

 

At worst, he's probably a 3rd line centre. At best, maybe we found a #2 at least until we "Tank hard for Bedard" and then he can move to the wing :P

I like the kid he was dropped in the deep end in Chicago and had a wrist injury at the worst time too. Here he will start out behind Zuke and Dvo so he will have a chance to get up to speed my hope is he ends up as a 2c or perhaps it will be a 1b type of thing.

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Rsndom dumb question : if you had a choice between Dach and Jespari K who would you prefer and why ? 
 

both have similar points per game of .38 based on games played in the NHL 

I don’t have any insight on their advanced stats cause I don’t care for them  ( that’s just me so don’t shoot me. ) 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Rsndom dumb question : if you had a choice between Dach and Jespari K who would you prefer and why ? 
 

both have similar points per game of .38 based on games played in the NHL 

I don’t have any insight on their advanced stats cause I don’t care for them  ( that’s just me so don’t shoot me. ) 

 

 

They're both getting to the point where they're going to miss having any chance at being a top 6 center. That said, the answer is easily Kotkaniemi for me. Yes, this is partly because the advanced stats show Kotkaniemi is a vastly superior possession player who generates more chances for his team. But past that, Kotkaniemi mainly played on the 4th line last year in Carolina yet had spurts of production when he played in the top 6. He hasn't had nearly as much opportunity thus far in his career as Dach, who has had a bit more PP time but has also had top 6 minutes and linemates in Chicago. Dach was the 3rd most-deployed forward last year for the Hawks and his most common linemate was Alex DeBrincat, in addition to playing a lot of his minutes with Patrick Kane.

So bottom line... one guy has had very little ice time, worse linemates, less PP time and generated more chances and the other guy has had more ice time, significantly better linemates (some would say DeBrincat and Kane are top 30 wingers in the league), and has possession metrics that are bad both in absolute terms and relative to his sorry team. The numbers all suggest there is more room for growth for Kotkaniemi, unless Dach really did have a massive setback with his wrist that he has suddenly recovered from after two years. I'm just saying that I'd like to see Kotkaniemi play with two guys like Debrincat and Kane the entire year and see if his numbers would be better than what Dach put up. If Carolina doesn't re-sign Trocheck and doesn't get Giroux or someone else to replace him, we may find out. I said last year that I expected JK to get buried at the bottom of the line-up in his first year with Carolina and struggle but that if Trocheck's spot opened up, 2022-23 would be a breakout year for Kotkaniemi. I think if he gets that opportunity, his numbers go up significantly, whereas I'm not sure we're offering Dach better ice time or linemates than he had in Chicago. I said the same thing about Dvorak when he was traded here, and the data doesn't tell me much different about Dach. Decent player. Not worth the exchange of picks we made.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

They're both getting to the point where they're going to miss having any chance at being a top 6 center.

I think it's important to remember that Dach has played in less than 2 full seasons worth of NHL games after joining the NHL as an 18 year old, and there was a bad injury in the middle of that that even if it was 100% healed last year probably set him back versus a player playing 2 full seasons in a row.

Obviously he's going to have to show something soon, but clearly Montreal wasn't making that trade to find their #3 center of the future, and they see a player coming off a rough year that still has a lot of potential they could get some value on. Time will tell if it was a smart bet, but for now I'm going to trust our management group knows what they're doing.

 

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22 minutes ago, Graeme-1 said:

I think it's important to remember that Dach has played in less than 2 full seasons worth of NHL games after joining the NHL as an 18 year old, and there was a bad injury in the middle of that that even if it was 100% healed last year probably set him back versus a player playing 2 full seasons in a row.

Obviously he's going to have to show something soon, but clearly Montreal wasn't making that trade to find their #3 center of the future, and they see a player coming off a rough year that still has a lot of potential they could get some value on. Time will tell if it was a smart bet, but for now I'm going to trust our management group knows what they're doing.

 

Agree. I personally would prefer Dach right now simply because a) he's 1 year younger and b) has played about 80 games less than JK.

Both have some very nice skills/pros but both have the potential to bust. 

I think Kotkaneimi probably has the higher floor right now - i think both have proven they are NHL players but JK feels like hes' on the cusp of 2/3 and Dach is just a solid 3 for me right now but i hope that changes in what is really his 3rd season. 

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7 hours ago, maas_art said:

Agree. I personally would prefer Dach right now simply because a) he's 1 year younger and b) has played about 80 games less than JK.

Both have some very nice skills/pros but both have the potential to bust. 

I think Kotkaneimi probably has the higher floor right now - i think both have proven they are NHL players but JK feels like hes' on the cusp of 2/3 and Dach is just a solid 3 for me right now but i hope that changes in what is really his 3rd season. 

Yes, Dach has played fewer games, but he has also

1. Been around the team for 3 years, missing time for injury while Kotkaniemi missed time for going back to the minors

2. Played 18+ minutes a night the past two seasons vs. 12-14 minutes a night for Kotkaniemi. JK has played about 600 more minutes in his career than Dach, so maybe the equivalent of 32-35 games for Dach. Also, more of Dach's minutes came on the PP.

3. Been playing with Debrincat and Kane while Kotkaniemi's most frequent linemates were Derek Stepan and Martin Necas.

So even if we're going to say Kotkaniemi has been around a year longer, his ice time per game is significantly lower, the quality of his ice time is worse, and the quality of his linemates was significantly worse. Hard to argue that those minutes/games played have been "equal opportunity" because the opportunity given strongly favors Dach. What Chicago did with Dach, putting him in a top 6 role and giving him strong linemates to try and allow him to succeed and play to his strengths is the opportunity the Habs should have been giving the likes of Eller, Galcheyuk, or Kotkaniemi but didn't. And so even though Dach has been around for a bit less time years-wise, I think we also know more about his ability to fill the role we're talking about. Kotkaniemi, on the other hand, really has never had the opportunity to be a 1C/2C, so I'd argue there's greater room for growth there or greater room for him to surprise us and be better than we think. Also important to remember that JK was a late birthday for his draft year, so the two players are only about 5 months apart in age and Kotkaniemi's first year in the NHL was one where he was just about the youngest player in the league.

I said something similar about Dvorak last year as I'm saying about Dach now. Here's a guy who is coming over to us and everyone just expects that he will flourish in a new system, but he's coming over having already been given top minutes and quality linemates. I think Dvorak was also getting 18-19 minutes a night with Arizona. So where's the room for growth there? Are we giving him 21-22 minutes a night? Who is he going to play with here that trumps what he got with his former team? Debrincat is just as prolific a scorer as Caufield and we frankly don't have a Patrick Kane. Now all that said, I do agree with you guys that Dach is young and as such, there's more room for growth here than there was for Dvorak, so it's not exactly the same situation. But this is also where advanced stats play into what I look at. A guy like Kotkaniemi hasn't put up a ton of points, but the stats don't lie when they show that his team dominates possession and gets the majority of the chances when he's on the ice. His Corsi through his first 4 seasons has been 57%, 54%, 55%, and 59%. Dach has put up 48%, 42%, and 46%, and his team's numbers are lower with him on the ice than with him off of it, so this is not just a product ofhis playing in a bad system.

So are we expecting a sudden turnaround in performance from Dach? How many top centers were mediocre for their first 2-3 years and had strongly negative Corsi's before turning it around in year 3 or 4? Aleks Barkov is one guy who frequently gets cited as being a "late bloomer." He really only started producing at a higher clip in his 3rd year. But in his first two seasons? Corsi's of 52% and 52%. Or Kotkaniemi's teammate Teuvo Teravainen, who was shipped out of Chicago as a disappointment as well? He also developed a bit later, but in his first few years he had put up Corsi's of 52%, 54%, and 51% before being traded. Nino Niederreiter had a Corsi of 47% in year 1 with the Isles and then put up 6 straight years of positive possession metrics in Minny between 50-55%, followed by 4 years between 56-58% in Carolina. Valeri Nichushkin was supposedly a breakout player this year but he had already put up positive Corsi stats with Dallas to begin with, 51%, 50%, and 52% in his first 3 years. Kadri was not as fantastic in his first 3 years, putting up 49%, 51%, and 47% in Toronto BUT this is an example of a player playing in a bad system because his stats were actually strongly positive relative to his teammates in every single year he played in Toronto except one. Mika Zabinejad had a breakout in NY, but in his years with Ottawa to begin, 54%, 54%, and 50% Corsi and in his career, he's been positive relative to his teammates in 8 of 10 seasons. Sean Couturier might be one example of a player who broke out late, whereby he had a significant jump in production in year 7 of his career. His Corsi in his first 3 years was 50%, 48%, and 49%. So not quite as bad as Dach's. And in Couturier's case, he was positive relative to his teammates in one of those 3 years and he was only playing 14-16 minutes a night at that time. His fortunes changed when hie got bumped up to the top 6 and started getting 18-21 minutes a night of ice time.

All that to say that while there are centers who break out production-wise further into their careers than Year 3, I can't think of one off the top of my head in recent times who put up three straight years of negative Corsi's and three straight years of negative relative Corsi's and had already been getting 18+ minutes a night on the top line and then suddenly became a star player later on. Usually, these late breakout players are guys who either see jumps in their opportunity (better quality linemates or more ice time) or they're guys who hadn't really put up numbers but had been dominating possession and getting the chances before the finishing followed. Both of those situations describe Kotkaniemi. Neither situation describes Dach. And so while on paper, the kid is 21 and big and talented and anything can happen and maybe MSL works some magic, I'm just not going to feel overly optimistic about his chances of becoming a 0.75 PPG player or better. The guys who have models looking at this agree. J Fresh ranks him in only the 10th percentile of players for last season in terms of value wadded to the team (contribution to wins over a replacement player)... in other words, 90% of players did more to help their teams win than what Dach contributed stats-wise. And Byron Bader's model gives him only a 4% chance of producing more than 0.7 PPG. His model also predicted there was only a 15% chance of this happening when he was drafted, so if you believe the analytics, this isn't a guy who was predicted to be a superstar and fell off the curve because of injury, this was a player who has never been a great point producer. He has strong metrics on the PK and he is able to move the puck up the ice, but he has terrible metrics in the offensive zone. No finish, no loose puck recovery, no creation of rebounds or scoring chances or second chances. And sadly, if you look at Bader's model, Slafkovsky's chances of being a 0.7 PPG player or better are also falling in line with this at 14%.

So do with this what you will. Occasionally there are guys who break the models or do things that are outliers from predictive measures. But the numbers don't lie, and they strongly suggest that Dach has a miniscule chance of breaking out while Kotkaniemi has a reasonable chance IF he gets a shot with better linemates and minutes. But the data we have suggests Dach can be a useful 3C and isn't in line to become a star, and I'm sorry if that ruins everyone's optimism about his pedigree, but if we're being realistic the odds are not great.

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12 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Yes, Dach has played fewer games, but he has also

1. Been around the team for 3 years, missing time for injury while Kotkaniemi missed time for going back to the minors

2. Played 18+ minutes a night the past two seasons vs. 12-14 minutes a night for Kotkaniemi. JK has played about 600 more minutes in his career than Dach, so maybe the equivalent of 32-35 games for Dach. Also, more of Dach's minutes came on the PP.

3. Been playing with Debrincat and Kane while Kotkaniemi's most frequent linemates were Derek Stepan and Martin Necas.

So even if we're going to say Kotkaniemi has been around a year longer, his ice time per game is significantly lower, the quality of his ice time is worse, and the quality of his linemates was significantly worse. Hard to argue that those minutes/games played have been "equal opportunity" because the opportunity given strongly favors Dach. What Chicago did with Dach, putting him in a top 6 role and giving him strong linemates to try and allow him to succeed and play to his strengths is the opportunity the Habs should have been giving the likes of Eller, Galcheyuk, or Kotkaniemi but didn't. And so even though Dach has been around for a bit less time years-wise, I think we also know more about his ability to fill the role we're talking about. Kotkaniemi, on the other hand, really has never had the opportunity to be a 1C/2C, so I'd argue there's greater room for growth there or greater room for him to surprise us and be better than we think. Also important to remember that JK was a late birthday for his draft year, so the two players are only about 5 months apart in age and Kotkaniemi's first year in the NHL was one where he was just about the youngest player in the league.

I said something similar about Dvorak last year as I'm saying about Dach now. Here's a guy who is coming over to us and everyone just expects that he will flourish in a new system, but he's coming over having already been given top minutes and quality linemates. I think Dvorak was also getting 18-19 minutes a night with Arizona. So where's the room for growth there? Are we giving him 21-22 minutes a night? Who is he going to play with here that trumps what he got with his former team? Debrincat is just as prolific a scorer as Caufield and we frankly don't have a Patrick Kane. Now all that said, I do agree with you guys that Dach is young and as such, there's more room for growth here than there was for Dvorak, so it's not exactly the same situation. But this is also where advanced stats play into what I look at. A guy like Kotkaniemi hasn't put up a ton of points, but the stats don't lie when they show that his team dominates possession and gets the majority of the chances when he's on the ice. His Corsi through his first 4 seasons has been 57%, 54%, 55%, and 59%. Dach has put up 48%, 42%, and 46%, and his team's numbers are lower with him on the ice than with him off of it, so this is not just a product ofhis playing in a bad system.

So are we expecting a sudden turnaround in performance from Dach? How many top centers were mediocre for their first 2-3 years and had strongly negative Corsi's before turning it around in year 3 or 4? Aleks Barkov is one guy who frequently gets cited as being a "late bloomer." He really only started producing at a higher clip in his 3rd year. But in his first two seasons? Corsi's of 52% and 52%. Or Kotkaniemi's teammate Teuvo Teravainen, who was shipped out of Chicago as a disappointment as well? He also developed a bit later, but in his first few years he had put up Corsi's of 52%, 54%, and 51% before being traded. Nino Niederreiter had a Corsi of 47% in year 1 with the Isles and then put up 6 straight years of positive possession metrics in Minny between 50-55%, followed by 4 years between 56-58% in Carolina. Valeri Nichushkin was supposedly a breakout player this year but he had already put up positive Corsi stats with Dallas to begin with, 51%, 50%, and 52% in his first 3 years. Kadri was not as fantastic in his first 3 years, putting up 49%, 51%, and 47% in Toronto BUT this is an example of a player playing in a bad system because his stats were actually strongly positive relative to his teammates in every single year he played in Toronto except one. Mika Zabinejad had a breakout in NY, but in his years with Ottawa to begin, 54%, 54%, and 50% Corsi and in his career, he's been positive relative to his teammates in 8 of 10 seasons. Sean Couturier might be one example of a player who broke out late, whereby he had a significant jump in production in year 7 of his career. His Corsi in his first 3 years was 50%, 48%, and 49%. So not quite as bad as Dach's. And in Couturier's case, he was positive relative to his teammates in one of those 3 years and he was only playing 14-16 minutes a night at that time. His fortunes changed when hie got bumped up to the top 6 and started getting 18-21 minutes a night of ice time.

All that to say that while there are centers who break out production-wise further into their careers than Year 3, I can't think of one off the top of my head in recent times who put up three straight years of negative Corsi's and three straight years of negative relative Corsi's and had already been getting 18+ minutes a night on the top line and then suddenly became a star player later on. Usually, these late breakout players are guys who either see jumps in their opportunity (better quality linemates or more ice time) or they're guys who hadn't really put up numbers but had been dominating possession and getting the chances before the finishing followed. Both of those situations describe Kotkaniemi. Neither situation describes Dach. And so while on paper, the kid is 21 and big and talented and anything can happen and maybe MSL works some magic, I'm just not going to feel overly optimistic about his chances of becoming a 0.75 PPG player or better. The guys who have models looking at this agree. J Fresh ranks him in only the 10th percentile of players for last season in terms of value wadded to the team (contribution to wins over a replacement player)... in other words, 90% of players did more to help their teams win than what Dach contributed stats-wise. And Byron Bader's model gives him only a 4% chance of producing more than 0.7 PPG. His model also predicted there was only a 15% chance of this happening when he was drafted, so if you believe the analytics, this isn't a guy who was predicted to be a superstar and fell off the curve because of injury, this was a player who has never been a great point producer. He has strong metrics on the PK and he is able to move the puck up the ice, but he has terrible metrics in the offensive zone. No finish, no loose puck recovery, no creation of rebounds or scoring chances or second chances. And sadly, if you look at Bader's model, Slafkovsky's chances of being a 0.7 PPG player or better are also falling in line with this at 14%.

So do with this what you will. Occasionally there are guys who break the models or do things that are outliers from predictive measures. But the numbers don't lie, and they strongly suggest that Dach has a miniscule chance of breaking out while Kotkaniemi has a reasonable chance IF he gets a shot with better linemates and minutes. But the data we have suggests Dach can be a useful 3C and isn't in line to become a star, and I'm sorry if that ruins everyone's optimism about his pedigree, but if we're being realistic the odds are not great.

I have an issue with using advanced stats, perhaps it is just my lack of understanding of them but it seems like most of the guys who have great possession and advanced stats numbers can't score. I am talking about the Lehkonen, Danault, Kotkaniemi, Galchenyuk, Armia, Necas, Compher and Pageau types of players. They can't seem to put up more than 20 goals and they don't even drive the play. Then you look at the goal scorers of the league and you see the opposite, guys like Kessel, Hoffman, Anderson, Caufield and Gallagher these are all guys who can and/or have scored 30+ goals consistently but their possession and advanced stats are on the weaker side. To me I don't care if Gallagher has a corsi of 35% as long as he is scoring 25+ goals a year  I do however care if a Kotkaniemi has a corsi of 60% but is only capable of putting up 20 goals a year max. Cuase even at 60% corsi KK is not doing as much to help his team win as Gally is at 35%. Quite simply put more goals = more wins. 

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20 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I have an issue with using advanced stats, perhaps it is just my lack of understanding of them but it seems like most of the guys who have great possession and advanced stats numbers can't score. I am talking about the Lehkonen, Danault, Kotkaniemi, Galchenyuk, Armia, Necas, Compher and Pageau types of players. They can't seem to put up more than 20 goals and they don't even drive the play. Then you look at the goal scorers of the league and you see the opposite, guys like Kessel, Hoffman, Anderson, Caufield and Gallagher these are all guys who can and/or have scored 30+ goals consistently but their possession and advanced stats are on the weaker side. To me I don't care if Gallagher has a corsi of 35% as long as he is scoring 25+ goals a year  I do however care if a Kotkaniemi has a corsi of 60% but is only capable of putting up 20 goals a year max. Cuase even at 60% corsi KK is not doing as much to help his team win as Gally is at 35%. Quite simply put more goals = more wins. 

Not sure where you're getting your data from but Galchenyuk, Compher, and Pageau all have terrible advanced statistics, and Gallagher has had good ones most of his career. Hoffman was strong with Ottawa and then not that great in recent years.

In any case, the premise is this: Corsi or expected goals or scoring chances for or whatever you use... they all measure how likely is your team to get a chance at scoring relative to the other team when you're on the ice. With some exceptions, most players tend to have shooting percentages in the 6-12% range. Shooting percentage tends to regress to the mean over time and it's really uncommon for a guy to maintain a shooting percentage of 20 or 25% (see Byron, Paul or Pitlick, Rem). So unless you're looking at a truly elite shooter, if everyone is shooting around 8-9% in the league, the best predictor of point production is going to be how many times you get the puck at net in strong scoring situations. If I shoot the puck at Carey Price 100 times, even if he has a save percentage of 0.920, I'm scoring 8 goals. If I shoot at him 10 times, it's 2 goals. Even if the goalie has a save percentage of .890, 100 shots is giving 11 goals and 10 shots is giving 1.1 goals. So over time, the more scoring opportunities you create, the more likely you are to help your team win. If I tell you to go take a free throw and if you get one in, you win a million dollars, tell me if you'd rather have a guy who hits 15% of his free throws take 1 shot or a guy who hits 5% of his free throws take 5 shots. Yes, that's a bit of an oversimplification, but it helps to explain why possession and chances matter. To boot, those metrics measure the difference between chances created and those against, so a player can be strong for being good offensively or defensively. Again, to use an example, if a player's team scores 10 goals with him on the ice but allows 12 and another guy has 5 goals with him on but allows only 3, the guy with less offence there is actually helping you more.

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5 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Not sure where you're getting your data from but Galchenyuk, Compher, and Pageau all have terrible advanced statistics, and Gallagher has had good ones most of his career. Hoffman was strong with Ottawa and then not that great in recent years.

In any case, the premise is this: Corsi or expected goals or scoring chances for or whatever you use... they all measure how likely is your team to get a chance at scoring relative to the other team when you're on the ice. With some exceptions, most players tend to have shooting percentages in the 6-12% range. Shooting percentage tends to regress to the mean over time and it's really uncommon for a guy to maintain a shooting percentage of 20 or 25% (see Byron, Paul or Pitlick, Rem). So unless you're looking at a truly elite shooter, if everyone is shooting around 8-9% in the league, the best predictor of point production is going to be how many times you get the puck at net in strong scoring situations. If I shoot the puck at Carey Price 100 times, even if he has a save percentage of 0.920, I'm scoring 8 goals. If I shoot at him 10 times, it's 2 goals. Even if the goalie has a save percentage of .890, 100 shots is giving 11 goals and 10 shots is giving 1.1 goals. So over time, the more scoring opportunities you create, the more likely you are to help your team win. If I tell you to go take a free throw and if you get one in, you win a million dollars, tell me if you'd rather have a guy who hits 15% of his free throws take 1 shot or a guy who hits 5% of his free throws take 5 shots. Yes, that's a bit of an oversimplification, but it helps to explain why possession and chances matter. To boot, those metrics measure the difference between chances created and those against, so a player can be strong for being good offensively or defensively. Again, to use an example, if a player's team scores 10 goals with him on the ice but allows 12 and another guy has 5 goals with him on but allows only 3, the guy with less offence there is actually helping you more.

Sorry to confuse you on this. I was only citing players that I have heard of other sites as having good and bad advanced stats and possession numbers. Like I said in the beginning I don't use either. My point was simply that possession and advanced stats don't account for good players who score but have bad possession and advanced stats and seem to favor lower offensive players who can't seem to score to save their lives. It's great to have more scoring chances and all that but if the puck doesn't go in the net what good is that? If player A has a corsi of 53% but only scores 10 goals himself and is team is taking an average of 30 shots per game but the team is only scoring at a 1.5 gpg pace that only translates to 123 goals over an 82 game season. If player B has a corsi of 45% but scores 24 gosls himself and the team gets the same 30 shots per game but scores at a 2.6 gpg pace and they will score 213 goals over a season. How is player A helping his team more than player B?

I am just making up these numbers I am sure there are examples in the players above that provide similar scenarios. Say like KK vs Kessel. Kessel probably provides more offense for his team than KK does, which translates to more wins for Kessel' team but their possession and advanced stats probably would tell a different story.

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15 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Welcome to the circus!

Haven't really seen him much in Chicago, read up on his ELC years a little though. That wrist fracture derailed his trajectory considerably it seems, let's see how he does here. It's a gamble but I'm okay with that.

agree 100%

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https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/kirby-dach-looking-forward-to-a-fresh-start-with-the-canadiens

GM Kent Hughes decided to take 6-foot-4, 229-pound left-winger Jurej Slafkovsky with the No. 1 overall pick at the NHL Draft on Thursday night instead of Wright, who ended up falling to No. 4 with the Seattle Kraken.

Wright was the top-rated North American prospect by NHL Central Scouting, while Slafkovsky was the top-rated European.

While the pick was somewhat surprising, Hughes had a bigger surprise up his sleeve when he made two trades shortly afterward — first sending defenceman Alexander Romanov to the New York Islanders and then taking the No. 13 overall pick he received in that deal and shipping it to the Blackhawks in order to get Dach.

Dach was the No. 3 overall pick by the Blackhawks at the 2019 NHL Draft, the same year the Canadiens selected Cole Caufield at No. 15. As an 18-year-old rookie the next season with Chicago, Dach posted 8-15-23 totals in 64 regular-season games and added 1-5-6 totals in nine playoff games.

The following season, the Blackhawks loaned Dach to Team Canada for the world junior championship and he was supposed to be the captain before suffering a fractured right wrist during a pre-tournament game that required surgery, forcing him to miss the event. The injury limited him to 18 games that season with the Blackhawks, posting 2-8-10 totals, and he missed the last three games of the season after aggravating his wrist injury.

Last season, Dach missed three games in January after being placed in the NHL’s COVID-19 protocol and missed the last eight games of the season because of a shoulder sprain. In 70 games, he posted 9-17-26 totals and was minus-18 while averaging 18:03 of ice time and winning only 32.8 per cent of his faceoffs.

Dach is now looking for a fresh start with the Canadiens and they are hoping coach Martin St. Louis can help the 6-foot-4, 197-pounder reach his full potential. It’s important to remember that Dach is only 21 and doesn’t turn 22 until Jan. 21. He is coming off his three-year, NHL entry-level contract that had a salary-cap hit of $925,000 and can become a restricted free agent next week, so Hughes still needs to sign him.

“I think it will be good for me to kind of have a fresh start and be the player I know I can be,” Dach said during a video conference Friday afternoon. “I feel like I’m pretty offensive and I’m smart with the puck and can make plays. But also that reliable two-way centreman that’s big and strong down the middle of the ice, that skates well and can make plays. I feel like Montreal’s a place where I can flourish with that. I’ve talked to a few of the guys and they love Marty as the coach. I feel like him and I are going to get along good and he’s going to help me bring out my best skill assets and become a dominant player.

Marty is pretty well-respected around the league and I’m really excited for the opportunity to get to work with him and some of the guys in Montreal, too, the forward group there and kind of begin a new chapter,” Dach added. “I’m just really super-excited to be a part of the Canadiens.”

Dach said his time in Chicago was full of ups and he thanked the Blackhawks for the opportunity they gave him and former teammate Brent Seabrook, who he lived with for his first two seasons while adjusting to life in the NHL in the Windy City.

“But I can’t be more excited to join the Canadiens, especially the way they’re trending and the team they have,” Dach added. “A young core mixed with the veteran leadership they have there. With the coaching staff and the management group, I think they’re on the right track and I just can’t wait for September to roll around and get things going.”

Dach already has a relationship with Kaiden Guhle, the Canadiens’ first-round pick at the 2020 NHL Draft, because the Alberta natives have trained together for the last four or five years and they texted each other almost simultaneously after Thursday night’s trade was announced.

Dach has only played twice at the Bell Centre during his NHL career, noting that he loves the ice and the atmosphere with the fans and is looking forward to having them cheer for him. Apart from that, he doesn’t know much about Montreal.

“I haven’t done a lot of sightseeing,” he said. “I heard the food scene’s great there. I’m a big foodie, so that will be good for me. I like to shop. It’s a nice little fashion town, too. It’s exciting. There’s a lot of new things for me to pick up there. Maybe start to work on my French a little bit so that we can talk that way a little bit better.”

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Should be interesting to see  his development .  I read a guy wrote that 1/2 the league sees him as nothing more than a  3rd line centre. 

At least the Habs will have an over abundance of  3 rd liners 

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3 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Should be interesting to see  his development .  I read a guy wrote that 1/2 the league sees him as nothing more than a  3rd line centre. 

At least the Habs will have an over abundance of  3 rd liners 

Hopefully 3rd line center couldn't make it in Chicago even when he played with Kane and Debrincat. So we gave up a solid up and coming defenseman who's only going to get better......hmmm potential high draft forward for solid defenseman will this be Drouin/Sergachev  2.0? 

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On 7/8/2022 at 9:32 PM, Regis22 said:

Rsndom dumb question : if you had a choice between Dach and Jespari K who would you prefer and why ? 
 

both have similar points per game of .38 based on games played in the NHL 

I don’t have any insight on their advanced stats cause I don’t care for them  ( that’s just me so don’t shoot me. ) 

I’m not huge on advanced stats but they do tell a story. It’s also a small game sample size so you’re asking us to project potential and ask the question as in the present right now 

1)  Kotkaniemi does NOT have an nhl shot by all commentary standards and to my eyes is a clumsy skater, gets knocked down on his butt a lot. I haven’t seen enough of Dach to comment 

2) KK wins on face off success by a long shot - Dach’s face off success at 33% is terrible by comparison to KK 45-47%

3) The salary cap is a massive part of the NHL game - KK and his agent team convinced some dumb butts to pay $6.1M and then $4.8M for another 8 years. That’s a large commitment to a player that likely projects as a 3C or a fringe 2C. An 8 year contract says he’s part of your core. I’m not convinced KK should be part of a teams core. I never would have paid $6.1M to lure Dach to Montreal - on the $ front and for performance to date,  Dach wins this by a mile! 
4) Culture - an important part of an organization- KK strikes me as “entitled with expectations” Dach I don’t know yet and seems humble, but I don’t want entitled players on my team 
Not an easy question you posed so maybe the answer is neither lol but we have to answer this in a years time 

 

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22 hours ago, KRH said:

Wish the Habs had kept Romanov .... and stayed away from Dach.

Terrible swap.

I loved Romy and his energy too but Guhle Harris are on their way as effective replacements. Someone was expendable and he had more current value. Kind of wish we could have gotten more for him or maybe kept the 13th pick but that pick could be a bust too

time will tell but I’m not going to dump on Dach for his apparent mistreatment or improper development in Chicago or place undue pressure on him for his first year here - our advanced analytical team and scouts must have seen something Dach as an outlier if I’m drinking the koolaid 

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7 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

. So we gave up a solid up and coming defenseman who's only going to get better...

I don’t think he’ll ever be  a #1 D man , but time will tell besides they supposedly have a boat load of D prospects 

 

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I would certainly take Dach over Kotkaniemi

  • Dach - Is a bigger player, and a much better skater  - he is not a player that's easily knocked of the puck like KK ( however KK skating is much better now then it was his first season, still not close to Dach)
  • Realistically, Dach just finished his second season in the league. Severe wrist injury 18 games put an end to the start of  season 2,  where he started with 10 points in first 18 games, pace for 46 points.. KK had 8 points through 36 games on pace for 18 points his second season,  Wasn't KK demoted in his second season to the AHL? 
  • The off ice turmoil in Chicago last couple of years, cannot help with a players development. 
  • KK had a chance to pad some number's playing mutiple games against some of the weakest teams in the league his 3rd fill season. This season he was on one of the the best teams in the league. KK shooting percent was around 15 % this season an unrealistic number, previous 3 season average was around 8% almost half, what would that leave him with about 7 or 8  goals this year, his 4th full season in the league.
  • Much like the first overall pick, it may or may not work out, but the potential is there, he is only 21, If this was a player that was  4  seasons in the league, with similiar numbers,  see KK, I would be a bit more hesitant and maybe have opted for the 13th pic,  But this a player realistically has only played two season in the league, playing on a broken team filled with turmoil,  still very young at 21, has a  huge upside.
  • This is a gamble that I like - Dach.
  • I also like the fact this it sounds like everything was in place before they selected Slav.
  • Management with a plan. It may or may not work out. But a plan was in place. 
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19 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

I would certainly take Dach over Kotkaniemi

  • Dach - Is a bigger player, and a much better skater  - he is not a player that's easily knocked of the puck like KK ( however KK skating is much better now then it was his first season, still not close to Dach)
  • Realistically, Dach just finished his second season in the league. Severe wrist injury 18 games put an end to the start of  season 2,  where he started with 10 points in first 18 games, pace for 46 points.. KK had 8 points through 36 games on pace for 18 points his second season,  Wasn't KK demoted in his second season to the AHL? 
  • The off ice turmoil in Chicago last couple of years, cannot help with a players development. 
  • KK had a chance to pad some number's playing mutiple games against some of the weakest teams in the league his 3rd fill season. This season he was on one of the the best teams in the league. KK shooting percent was around 15 % this season an unrealistic number, previous 3 season average was around 8% almost half, what would that leave him with about 7 or 8  goals this year, his 4th full season in the league.
  • Much like the first overall pick, it may or may not work out, but the potential is there, he is only 21, If this was a player that was  4  seasons in the league, with similiar numbers,  see KK, I would be a bit more hesitant and maybe have opted for the 13th pic,  But this a player realistically has only played two season in the league, playing on a broken team filled with turmoil,  still very young at 21, has a  huge upside.
  • This is a gamble that I like - Dach.
  • I also like the fact this it sounds like everything was in place before they selected Slav.
  • Management with a plan. It may or may not work out. But a plan was in place. 

We'll see not sold on Dach. I would of rather kept Romanov. Romy has played almost every year mostly injury free whereas Dach when it comes to injury is a question mark. Also is he really an improvement over Dvorack? It's also possible that maybe Dach was drafted higher than he should of been. Time will tell, myself I'm hoping for the best. 

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