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  • 1 month later...
On 7/10/2022 at 6:27 PM, CaptWelly said:

First line CC , Suz, Slav

 

1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

It is too early to know what the roster will look like and who may be leaving but I can't wait to see the opening night lineup! We are going to give up a bunch of goals but I think we will also be scoring a fair number, should be fun!

I actually have a sneaking suspicion that Suzuki will only play with one of Slaf or CC.  I assume it will be CC because they have chemistry and are a little more developed but i wouldnt be surprised at all to see Slaf/Zuke in a year or two.  On the PP we may well see all 3 but at 5-on-5 i think they will split them up. 

I think we may start the season with something like:

CC - Suzuki - Anderson
Slaf - Dach - Dadanov
Drouin/Hoffman - Dvorak - Gallagher
Pitlick - Evans - Armia

I would not be surprised at all to see Drouin/Hoffman gone though & I also think we may try to upgrade D which is scary, at best, to try to figure out right now. 

Not to put too much pressure on the kid, but the success of our forwards is really going to depend on Dach taking a big step forward this year.  Everyone else can probably play more or less to their potential/trajectory but we well need Dach to make a big stride this year. 

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^^ It's really not clear to me that Slafkovsky will make the team. I think it depends less on himself and more on what KH can do to clear the clutter of wingers before the season starts. CC is top 6. Anderson is top 6. You need to showcase Drouin and Dadonov and maybe even Hoffman. Gallagher's a longstanding veteran here and I think it'll be hard for them to shelve him on the 4th line. Ylonen and RHP may be more NHL-ready than Slafkovsky. So bottom line is that it may not behoove the Habs to play Slafkovsky in the NHL to start the year. I wonder if they don't start him in Laval and bring him up partway through the season.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ It's really not clear to me that Slafkovsky will make the team. I think it depends less on himself and more on what KH can do to clear the clutter of wingers before the season starts. CC is top 6. Anderson is top 6. You need to showcase Drouin and Dadonov and maybe even Hoffman. Gallagher's a longstanding veteran here and I think it'll be hard for them to shelve him on the 4th line. Ylonen and RHP may be more NHL-ready than Slafkovsky. So bottom line is that it may not behoove the Habs to play Slafkovsky in the NHL to start the year. I wonder if they don't start him in Laval and bring him up partway through the season.

I'm perfectly fine with that, we don't need him to make the jump to the NHL right away. I realize he's played against men before but it won't hurt him to get used to the smaller ice and the AHL is a solid development league in general. Let him gain confidence in his abilities and work on the basics, so he's prepared for long-term success. We don't need him to be the savior right now, the roster will look very different in 2023 and that's when we can start turning this around and actually make progress in the right direction. Slafkovsky is a key piece of course, but there's no need to be impatient with him.

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Here is my theory for the opening night lineup. I think KH and JG want to see a number of kids in the lineup to see what they can do. I think as many as 5 kids get a 9 game stint (obviously not all at the same time). Among them are Slafkovsky, Guhle, Barron, Harris, Ylonen, RHP and Mesar. I also believe that depending on their performance we could see as many as 3 play 40+ games. Those with the inside track IMO are Slafkovsky, Mesar, Barron and Guhle. This year won't focus on wins but on development, so the Habs management aren't going to be concerned with too many rookies in the lineup. My guess is that Drouin will be traded in the early part of the season if he is playing well, Hoffman may be a deadline move, Dadonov I feel like is here for at least 3 years, Byron will likely be a deadline move as well. Price will play an entire season and most likely play out his contract here (there are rumblings that Vegas would like to be kept apprised to the situation but I think that may just be wishful thinking lol). 

Opening night lineup IMO (barring any trades)

Caufield-Suzuki-Dadonov

Slafkovsky-Dach-Anderson

Hoffman-Dvorak-Gallagher

Ylonen-Evans-Armia

Mesar, Drouin

Matheson-Savad

Edmundson-Barron

Guhle-Wideman

Harris

Price 

Allen

LTIR Byron

IMO Pitlick and Pezzetta get waived and Pitlick gets claimed at the start of the season, Pezzeta clears waivers.

Harris will sub in for Guhle or Barron and Mesar for Slafkovsky or Hoffman until the prospects hit the 9 game mark or its clear they are not ready. 

Lineup after prospects are filtered out (20ish games in).

Caufield-Suzuki-Dadonov

Slafkovsky-Dach-Anderson 

Hoffman-Dvorak-Gallagher 

RHP-Evans-Armia

Pezzeta, Richard or Stevens

Matheson-Savad

Edmundson-Barron

Guhle-Wideman 

Schueneman 

Price

Montembeault 

Claimed off waivers Pitlick

LTIR Byron

Traded Drouin and Allen

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ It's really not clear to me that Slafkovsky will make the team. I think it depends less on himself and more on what KH can do to clear the clutter of wingers before the season starts. CC is top 6. Anderson is top 6. You need to showcase Drouin and Dadonov and maybe even Hoffman. Gallagher's a longstanding veteran here and I think it'll be hard for them to shelve him on the 4th line. Ylonen and RHP may be more NHL-ready than Slafkovsky. So bottom line is that it may not behoove the Habs to play Slafkovsky in the NHL to start the year. I wonder if they don't start him in Laval and bring him up partway through the season.

I wouldnt be surprised at all to see Slaf get 60 games or less this year but I do think he'll start the year with the big club, if only for a few games. 

I also wouldnt be surprised to see him start the year in Laval iwith Mesar (who will stay there all year i assume).  The team has been keeping them together since draft day in a buddy-up sort of way which is not a bad idea for trying to get 2 kids acclimatized to the NHL (would be better with a slovakian vet but we dont have one of those so...) 

I agree there's lots of work to do before we really know who and what we can ice with this lineup.

 

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10 hours ago, maas_art said:

 

I actually have a sneaking suspicion that Suzuki will only play with one of Slaf or CC.  I assume it will be CC because they have chemistry and are a little more developed but i wouldnt be surprised at all to see Slaf/Zuke in a year or two.  On the PP we may well see all 3 but at 5-on-5 i think they will split them up. 

I think we may start the season with something like:

CC - Suzuki - Anderson
Slaf - Dach - Dadanov
Drouin/Hoffman - Dvorak - Gallagher
Pitlick - Evans - Armia

I would not be surprised at all to see Drouin/Hoffman gone though & I also think we may try to upgrade D which is scary, at best, to try to figure out right now. 

Not to put too much pressure on the kid, but the success of our forwards is really going to depend on Dach taking a big step forward this year.  Everyone else can probably play more or less to their potential/trajectory but we well need Dach to make a big stride this year. 

A hypothetical trade was proposed by one Montreal site whereby Vegas would take Jake Allen as a replacement for the full season injured Robin Lehner, plus take one of our bad winger contracts - likely Hoffman / Armia but in exchange for what was questionable - prospect / 3rd round picks. Vegas now has some cap room, with Lehner out and Weber's LTIR. It's conceivable that maybe one of our excess wingers is traded before the deadline under that type of deal to free some future cap space. All dependent on Price's health. 

Anderson played on the first line with limited success last year so in your scenario, I could see Dadonov and Anderson switched on the first 2 lines. 

Slaf will have to show something pretty extraordinary to start for 10 introduction games. Barring injury, I suspect Pezzetta is our 13th forward, and Drouin, Hoffman and Pitlick become 2/3/4 at LW. At least until Byron comes back supposedly in the 2nd half. 

Until the trade deadline, assuming moving one or more of Drouin, Dadonov, Hoffman, I have a hard time seeing Ylonen or the smallish RHP make this team. I think they will be told bide your time until that trade deadline. It makes little development sense to me, for Ylonen or RHP to get 4th line minutes on the RW or LW side. 

I am excited for the Laval infusion - Laval at forward should get Slaf, likely Mesar, Jan Mysak. The story seems to be if Heineman doesn't impress, his club team in Sweden wants him back there. Plus they get full expected seasons from Nate Scharr, Joel Teasdale. On Defense, Laval will get probably 2 of Guhle, Norlinder, Xhekaj. They should be able to continue to foster a winning culture there which is something we have never had any consistency on. 

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10 hours ago, claremont said:

A hypothetical trade was proposed by one Montreal site whereby Vegas would take Jake Allen as a replacement for the full season injured Robin Lehner, plus take one of our bad winger contracts - likely Hoffman / Armia but in exchange for what was questionable - prospect / 3rd round picks. Vegas now has some cap room, with Lehner out and Weber's LTIR. It's conceivable that maybe one of our excess wingers is traded before the deadline under that type of deal to free some future cap space. All dependent on Price's health. 

Anderson played on the first line with limited success last year so in your scenario, I could see Dadonov and Anderson switched on the first 2 lines. 

Slaf will have to show something pretty extraordinary to start for 10 introduction games. Barring injury, I suspect Pezzetta is our 13th forward, and Drouin, Hoffman and Pitlick become 2/3/4 at LW. At least until Byron comes back supposedly in the 2nd half. 

Until the trade deadline, assuming moving one or more of Drouin, Dadonov, Hoffman, I have a hard time seeing Ylonen or the smallish RHP make this team. I think they will be told bide your time until that trade deadline. It makes little development sense to me, for Ylonen or RHP to get 4th line minutes on the RW or LW side. 

I am excited for the Laval infusion - Laval at forward should get Slaf, likely Mesar, Jan Mysak. The story seems to be if Heineman doesn't impress, his club team in Sweden wants him back there. Plus they get full expected seasons from Nate Scharr, Joel Teasdale. On Defense, Laval will get probably 2 of Guhle, Norlinder, Xhekaj. They should be able to continue to foster a winning culture there which is something we have never had any consistency on. 

Every year we always hear how the team doesn't develop players properly. I say let Slav and Mesar play in Laval. Hopefully they could dominate and learn a winning culture. This would also give time to get the wingers we want to move a better showcase for trading purposes. This also could help our draft position for 2023. There is no reason at this time to rush anyone. (even though as a fan base we may want to see them).

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12 hours ago, maas_art said:

I wouldnt be surprised at all to see Slaf get 60 games or less this year but I do think he'll start the year with the big club, if only for a few games. 

I also wouldnt be surprised to see him start the year in Laval iwith Mesar (who will stay there all year i assume).  The team has been keeping them together since draft day in a buddy-up sort of way which is not a bad idea for trying to get 2 kids acclimatized to the NHL (would be better with a slovakian vet but we dont have one of those so...) 

I agree there's lots of work to do before we really know who and what we can ice with this lineup.

 

I agree with this.

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On 8/16/2022 at 10:07 PM, CaptWelly said:

Every year we always hear how the team doesn't develop players properly. I say let Slav and Mesar play in Laval. Hopefully they could dominate and learn a winning culture. This would also give time to get the wingers we want to move a better showcase for trading purposes. This also could help our draft position for 2023. There is no reason at this time to rush anyone. (even though as a fan base we may want to see them).

i really hope they stay in laval.

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1 hour ago, AH64 said:

i really hope they stay in laval.

imho Mesar starts there & stays there. He has a few things to work on in his game & they need to decide if he should be developed as a winger or as a centre.

I think Slaf will start with the NHL team, get a few games & then likely sent down.  Obviously none of us know how he will do but I have this sneaking suspicion he will dominate in the minors & play less than 30 games there.  

Like everyone, I want him to develop wherever is best for him. Im a little more optimistic about him doing that even on the NHL team now that we've hired several development coaches for the NHL not just the AHL. 

 

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So many forwards on the team, pretty sure we'll see another trade or two. Suzuki, Caufield, Anderson, Dvorak, Drouin, Gallagher, Dach, Dadonov, Monahan, Hoffman, Armia, Evans, Pitlick... and that's without counting our prospects. As it stands I'd probably try something like this to see how it goes:

Drouin-Suzuki-Caufield

Monahan-Dach-Anderson

Dadonov-Dvorak-Gallagher

Byron-Evans-Armia

Hoffman/Pitlick

Nothing is set in stone of course and there are plenty of possible line combinations. When healthy, that 2nd line could be fun to watch and probably wouldn't be easy to contain. I don't see much use for Hoffman or Pitlick though, aside from serving as injury replacements. That 4th line also isn't ideal, and then there are guys like Ylonen, Pezzetta, Heineman, Harvey-Pinard, or Slafkovsky who could be pushing for spots this season (and could probably replace some of what Dadonov, Byron, Hoffman, and Pitlick bring – at a fraction of the cost). Unless we add someone, I expect the D pairings to be a work in progress all season long, so I'm not even going there.

 

 

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5 hours ago, ChiLla said:

So many forwards on the team, pretty sure we'll see another trade or two. Suzuki, Caufield, Anderson, Dvorak, Drouin, Gallagher, Dach, Dadonov, Monahan, Hoffman, Armia, Evans, Pitlick... and that's without counting our prospects. As it stands I'd probably try something like this to see how it goes:

Drouin-Suzuki-Caufield

Monahan-Dach-Anderson

Dadonov-Dvorak-Gallagher

Byron-Evans-Armia

Hoffman/Pitlick

Nothing is set in stone of course and there are plenty of possible line combinations. When healthy, that 2nd line could be fun to watch and probably wouldn't be easy to contain. I don't see much use for Hoffman or Pitlick though, aside from serving as injury replacements. That 4th line also isn't ideal, and then there are guys like Ylonen, Pezzetta, Heineman, Harvey-Pinard, or Slafkovsky who could be pushing for spots this season (and could probably replace some of what Dadonov, Byron, Hoffman, and Pitlick bring – at a fraction of the cost). Unless we add someone, I expect the D pairings to be a work in progress all season long, so I'm not even going there.

Byron supposedly will still be on LTIR to start the year which frees a spot likely for a  Hoffman showcase. I would like to see a trade of one of our wingers sooner than the trade deadline but I suspect we would have to throw in a draft pick and give them away for a team to take a contract like Hoffman or even Armia. 
Until the trade deadline, or until an injury (oft injured Drouin), I don’t see any room for Ylonen or any of the other prospects, even though one could be ready. HuGo will have a balancing act to weigh on that decision. 

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I'm not really worried about the glut of forwards. There will be injuries before camp is even completed. I am interested in the possibility of an Anderson trade though. Obviously his name came up in tons of rumors over the past few months. I think he is one forward who could catch us a nice return.

I do, however, think he starts the season here.

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28 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm not really worried about the glut of forwards. There will be injuries before camp is even completed. I am interested in the possibility of an Anderson trade though. Obviously his name came up in tons of rumors over the past few months. I think he is one forward who could catch us a nice return.

I do, however, think he starts the season here.

yeah, losing Anderson will be tough because he is a solid player but you have to think just as we hit our stride, he's going to be leaving his prime window.  With the addition of Slaf we may not need Anderson as much either. Reminds me a bit of Toffoli who i didnt want to lose but the return was certainly worth it & it made sense, time-wise.

Guys like Dadanov, Monahan, Byron and Drouin are no brainers to move.  Impending UFA, older, they are all as good as gone. And guys like Hoffman, Armia and Gallagher, while we may want to move them, might be tougher sells.  That leaves Anderson and Dvorak as two players who probably make sense to move and could actually fetch a solid return.

Once the dust settles, players progress etc, this is what we've probably got up front, assuming none of them flame out.

Slafkovsky - Suzuki - Caufield

Roy - Dach - Mesar

Kidney - Dvorak/Mysak? - Ylonen

Pitlick - Evans -Heineman/Pezzetta

Its a solid starting point.  Is Roy top 6?  Can Mesar be a 2nd liner?  Is Mysak a 3rd liner? Lots of questions but a beginning.

It would be nice to add a guy like Bedard, Michkov or Fantilli  of course - and trading away guys like Anderson, Dvorak, Dadanov, Monahan, Drouin, Byron will bring in assets the other way so we might end up with some nice upgrades.

But I think our main focus has to be on defense.

Guhle, Barron, Harris, Hutson, Mailloux, Xhekaj are a nice starting point.  Matheson will likely be here a few more years but beyond that we have some holes (and we need ALL of these guys to develop to their potential).  Adding in a couple of top prospects or young vets on the blueline should be a priority over the next 12-18 months.


We're actually in a nice position. Credit to MB for not leaving the cupboards bare at least.  I think up front we need 1 more elite player and on the blueline we could use 2-3 high end defensmen. This is doable in the next 2 drafts, especially if we can trade for a few more 1st rounders.   Gosh I hope Florida flames out this year. 

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22 minutes ago, maas_art said:



Slafkovsky - Suzuki - Caufield

Roy - Dach - Mesar

Kidney - Dvorak/Mysak? - Ylonen

Pitlick - Evans -Heineman/Pezzetta
 

I dont think that line up will happen.  if that is our forward group we are in for some pain for a long time. Granted i dont know your time frame here but that does not look good at all to me. Roy is weak skater and has no pace. Kidney is a long shot for the nhl. Mesar way to early to project as a second liner. Ylonen in my opinion will not be as good as everyone thinks.  that line up looks super weak, imo.

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3 hours ago, AH64 said:

I dont think that line up will happen.  if that is our forward group we are in for some pain for a long time. Granted i dont know your time frame here but that does not look good at all to me. Roy is weak skater and has no pace. Kidney is a long shot for the nhl. Mesar way to early to project as a second liner. Ylonen in my opinion will not be as good as everyone thinks.  that line up looks super weak, imo.

Neither do i. thats why I said "Its a solid starting point."  Of course nobody knows how many of these guys will project. But its the first time in a long time that we have some nice pieces starting to come together. You add an elite forward to that group & some of the secondary stuff that comes from trades & we will be well on our way to a quality rebuild. 

As I also mentioned, we will be stockpiling picks, drafting player and moving expiring contracts - we will get back some good players/propspects/picks in those transactions. 

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3 hours ago, tony5775 said:

Now that Stastny has signed in Carolina, I can see a lot of interest in Dvorak. Especially Winnipeg, do they still have a first round pick for next spring. Would love to get that. Would take more then Dvorak, but it would be worth it. 

I don’t see Winnipeg as a target - they have a lot of Centre depth - Dubois, Schiefele, Lowry  and some up and coming prospects - Perfetti will probably start. Chaz Lucius is 1-2 years away. Jets do need a shakeup or some value add though- I’m just not convinced it’s Dvorak. 

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  • 1 month later...

Getting a glimpse of what MSL is thinking of trying early:

Dadonov-Dvorak-Gallagher

Drouin-Evans-Drouin

Caufield with Hoffman (and Mesar as a possible placeholder for Suzuki in the middle)

 

That leaves Dach to play with some combination of Monahan, Anderson, Slafkovsky, or Ylonen. Given they've lined up Slafkovsky with Beck and RHP, it doesn't look like they're gifting him a spot in the starting 12 and he'll have to earn that. Guessing it's Monahan-Dach-Anderson if everyone's healthy, albeit always room to try other things as camp progresses, and I'd be surprised to see Hoffman stay on the 1st line longterm.

On D, looks like we're seeing Guhle-Savard and Matheson-Barron as the top 4 with Edmundson out. And then Wideman, Harris, and Xhekaj getting the best looks otherwise. But again, I have a hard time seeing them go with 4 rookies, so Edmundson and maybe Schueneman play back into this (or a trade or waiver-wire pick-up as teams start to make cuts).

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3 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Getting a glimpse of what MSL is thinking of trying early:

Dadonov-Dvorak-Gallagher

Drouin-Evans-Drouin

Caufield with Hoffman (and Mesar as a possible placeholder for Suzuki in the middle)

 

That leaves Dach to play with some combination of Monahan, Anderson, Slafkovsky, or Ylonen. Given they've lined up Slafkovsky with Beck and RHP, it doesn't look like they're gifting him a spot in the starting 12 and he'll have to earn that. Guessing it's Monahan-Dach-Anderson if everyone's healthy, albeit always room to try other things as camp progresses, and I'd be surprised to see Hoffman stay on the 1st line longterm.

On D, looks like we're seeing Guhle-Savard and Matheson-Barron as the top 4 with Edmundson out. And then Wideman, Harris, and Xhekaj getting the best looks otherwise. But again, I have a hard time seeing them go with 4 rookies, so Edmundson and maybe Schueneman play back into this (or a trade or waiver-wire pick-up as teams start to make cuts).

That's all we need, 2 Drouins!

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