2022-2023 Lines

[ramcharger440]

6 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

The Habs had zero finish yesterday as well as terrible special teams, but their play at 5v5 was otherwise dominant. If we look specifically at the D pairings, Matheson and Savard led the way with a 90% Corsi, while Harris-Kovacevic was over 75% together. Guhle-Edmundson was the worst pairing down in the mid-50s.

All this to say that I would leave those first two pairings alone right now. But Edmundson is struggling no matter who he's being paired with and Hughes needs to work on finding a trade for him ASAP, one before he loses value and two so we can get Xhekaj back into the line-up.

I am 100% with you on this! we need the kids out there developing and Eddy is an injury time bomb who is not playing well! time to go asap make some kind of move with him and get WIFI  back out there he will make mistakes but he is improving and learning with Eddy he is what he is and we don't need him as much as we need to get our kids all the ice they can handle! Matheson and Savard looked ok and Harris works well with Kovy Guhle and Wifi would be one tough pairing to play against! no rom on the team for Eddy right now!

[electron58]

12 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

The Habs had zero finish yesterday as well as terrible special teams, but their play at 5v5 was otherwise dominant. If we look specifically at the D pairings, Matheson and Savard led the way with a 90% Corsi, while Harris-Kovacevic was over 75% together. Guhle-Edmundson was the worst pairing down in the mid-50s.

Wow. Did not see that coming. I thought they were the worst in that game, with the Eddy/Guhle tandem next. Poor Kaiden. I'm sure that Guhle never expected to prop up some veteran. Funny how stats & actual play don't line up with the eye test.

[maas_art]

12 hours ago, electron58 said:

 Poor Kaiden. I'm sure that Guhle never expected to prop up some veteran. Funny how stats & actual play don't line up with the eye test.

He's playing top 4 minutes in the NHL at 20. Im sure he could care less where he's playing or who he's 'propping up' i think he's more than happy to be in his current role ;)

[electron58]

12 hours ago, maas_art said:

He's playing top 4 minutes in the NHL at 20. I'm sure he could care less where he's playing or who he's 'propping up' i think he's more than happy to be in his current role ;)

I'm just referring to the statisticians who feel that Guhle was on our worst defense pairing. the other game. Eddy has been an anchor, but I'm sure that Guhle has the confidence of this management team. And yes, I'm sure that Guhle is thrilled to be playing top minutes. Imagine if we had a top RD for Guhle to play along side? I'm sure his stats would soar.

[BigTed3]

Not sure what the lines will end up being tonight, but what I'd like to see is

Caufield-Suzuki-Armia

Drouin-Dach-Slafkovsky

Richard-Dvorak-Anderson

Hoffman-Evans-Dadonov

 

Guhle-Xhekaj

Harris-Kovacevic

Edmundson-Wideman

 

Why? The Habs need to find someone other than Dach to play on line 1 if the plan is to make Dach the 2C. Anderson doesn't work there. Hoffman doesn't work there. Dach works because he can carry the puck into the zone and also because he's big and recovers loose pucks. Drouin would be the obvious replacement as a puck carrier, but then there's no one to go into the corners and to the front of the net. Armia fills the bigger need here, so I'd give him a go there and maybe it gets him going.

On line 2, I'm putting Drouin next to Dach, as JD has been playing well of late. I'll also slide Slafkovsky over to the right side and see how he does there. One of his biggest issues is his vision, so I wonder if being on his off-wing as he skates up ice will give him an easier time seeing the play. Dvorak gets the two next-best wingers with speed, and Evans gets the leftovers.

On D, I'm tired of seeing Guhle weighed down with bad partners. Xhekaj is a gamble, but he's got the biggest upside of the available choices, so he gets paired with Guhle.

 

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Not sure what the lines will end up being tonight, but what I'd like to see is

Caufield-Suzuki-Armia

Drouin-Dach-Slafkovsky

Richard-Dvorak-Anderson

Hoffman-Evans-Dadonov

 

Guhle-Xhekaj

Harris-Kovacevic

Edmundson-Wideman

 

Why? The Habs need to find someone other than Dach to play on line 1 if the plan is to make Dach the 2C. Anderson doesn't work there. Hoffman doesn't work there. Dach works because he can carry the puck into the zone and also because he's big and recovers loose pucks. Drouin would be the obvious replacement as a puck carrier, but then there's no one to go into the corners and to the front of the net. Armia fills the bigger need here, so I'd give him a go there and maybe it gets him going.

On line 2, I'm putting Drouin next to Dach, as JD has been playing well of late. I'll also slide Slafkovsky over to the right side and see how he does there. One of his biggest issues is his vision, so I wonder if being on his off-wing as he skates up ice will give him an easier time seeing the play. Dvorak gets the two next-best wingers with speed, and Evans gets the leftovers.

On D, I'm tired of seeing Guhle weighed down with bad partners. Xhekaj is a gamble, but he's got the biggest upside of the available choices, so he gets paired with Guhle.

 

Im actually surprised we havent see Armia on the 1st.  MSL has already said he mostly looks at lines as a duo, with the 3rd guy as a "compliment"  - armia as a board guy and bit body probably helps the Suzuki-CC duo more than Dach even.  Armia wont be as effective as a point producer for sure but as a compliment to the other 2? Its worth a try.

Ive also been asking to see Slaf at RW. He said in an early interview he will play whatever position they want him to but he actually prefers playing on the off-wing so id like to see him there at least for a stretch. 

[CaptWelly]

32 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Im actually surprised we havent see Armia on the 1st.  MSL has already said he mostly looks at lines as a duo, with the 3rd guy as a "compliment"  - armia as a board guy and bit body probably helps the Suzuki-CC duo more than Dach even.  Armia wont be as effective as a point producer for sure but as a compliment to the other 2? Its worth a try.

Ive also been asking to see Slaf at RW. He said in an early interview he will play whatever position they want him to but he actually prefers playing on the off-wing so id like to see him there at least for a stretch. 

I know it's strong side coming off the boards, but I'd worry about anytime battling or along the boards he would have his back to the play more. He has already been hit quite a few times because of not being aware. 

[BigTed3]

12 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I know it's strong side coming off the boards, but I'd worry about anytime battling or along the boards he would have his back to the play more. He has already been hit quite a few times because of not being aware. 

Potentially, but I think his bigger problem has been cutting to the center of the ice with his head down, a la Richard Zednik. If his eyes are already towards the middle of the ice, maybe that would help... similar to Caufield, if he's intended to be a shooter, then being off-wing can also open up the one-timer a bit more. There are advantages and disadvantages both ways, but with Slaf's game, I'm curious to see if he would work better on the right.

[ramcharger440]

It will be interesting to see what the lines look like after the break. If Monahan is still out we need to figure out who the 2C is going to be, it looks like they feel Dach is going to have to take that roll which makes sense. I am really sick of seeing some of the vets floating around out there as  they are doing nothing to improve the value they may have! if at all possible they should move the true deadweight asap! get some more kids developing and when the trade deadline gets here make whatever moves they can with players who have actual value like Eddy and Anderson we are most likely stuck with Gally's contract and Monahan's sore foot seems to be taking a bit to get better! I personally can't wait to see the end of Drouin Hoff and Dandonov!

[CaptWelly]

19 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Potentially, but I think his bigger problem has been cutting to the center of the ice with his head down, a la Richard Zednik. If his eyes are already towards the middle of the ice, maybe that would help... similar to Caufield, if he's intended to be a shooter, then being off-wing can also open up the one-timer a bit more. There are advantages and disadvantages both ways, but with Slaf's game, I'm curious to see if he would work better on the right.

I believe with CC he's grown up in North America and has always been smaller. CC is such a natural scorer I don't think side really matters. He played right wing when he broke records USHL and in college. Again, though he's someone who can play anywhere. This could help Salv, I just think there's a real risk until he gets used to the smaller rink with quicker pressure. The hits he's already taken that have been along the boards have already been concerning. He's already gotten that reputation and becoming a target.

[BigTed3]

So Barron recalled from the AHL... interesting. Habs don't practice until this afternoon in Tampa, so unclear if he's here because someone else is hurt or because he's just earned a promotion and they want to give him a look. In any case, this is the player I'd want to pair with Guhle if I were the Habs. Guhle has been missing someone who can play next to him who can move the puck. So my D pairings, if it were my call, would be

Guhle-Barron

Harris-Kovacevic

Edmundson-Xhekaj

Wideman

This with the assumption that Matheson and Savard are still out.

[CaptWelly]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

So Barron recalled from the AHL... interesting. Habs don't practice until this afternoon in Tampa, so unclear if he's here because someone else is hurt or because he's just earned a promotion and they want to give him a look. In any case, this is the player I'd want to pair with Guhle if I were the Habs. Guhle has been missing someone who can play next to him who can move the puck. So my D pairings, if it were my call, would be

Guhle-Barron

Harris-Kovacevic

Edmundson-Xhekaj

Wideman

This with the assumption that Matheson and Savard are still out.

Might be a big jump to first pairing especially against Tampa. I am glad to see him called up. I think he's going to have a nice future. 

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, CaptWelly said:

Might be a big jump to first pairing especially against Tampa. I am glad to see him called up. I think he's going to have a nice future. 

True, but then I'd ask if there are really ordered pairs here or just 3 decent pairs with no standouts... the alternative is to play one of X or Eddy on the pairing with Guhle, but Eddy there hasn't worked out at all, so you're ending up with two rookies together no matter what, in addition to a 2nd rookie pairing with Harris-Kovy. Ultimately, the goal this year isn't winning games, so I'm happy to see whatever they think can gel for the future.

[BigTed3]

So finally we have

Eddy-Guhle

Harris-Barron

Xhekaj-Kovacevic

Don't love this for a number of reasons:

- Guhle needs a better partner. He's been saddled down with two of our least skilled D men and asked to play against top opposition, with pitiful results. Guhle looks better than his performances would suggest and I'd love to see him next to a puck-moving RHD now that we finally have one on the roster in Barron.

- Harris-Kovacevic has been good and certainly better than when either guy has been on their own. Don't see a reason to split this up, and it feels like we're giving Barron the partner whose skillset is most like his own rather than being complementary. Last season, Barron's biggest issues were falling down too much and being caught out of position. Yes, Harris will cover the latter, but I feel like Guhle is a better overall partner for Barron, given he's a good skater and can hold the fort down a bit more than some of the other D men.

- Eddy is on the trade block. Why not shelter him a little and try to make him look better?

[CaptWelly]

54 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

So finally we have

Eddy-Guhle

Harris-Barron

Xhekaj-Kovacevic

Don't love this for a number of reasons:

- Guhle needs a better partner. He's been saddled down with two of our least skilled D men and asked to play against top opposition, with pitiful results. Guhle looks better than his performances would suggest and I'd love to see him next to a puck-moving RHD now that we finally have one on the roster in Barron.

- Harris-Kovacevic has been good and certainly better than when either guy has been on their own. Don't see a reason to split this up, and it feels like we're giving Barron the partner whose skillset is most like his own rather than being complementary. Last season, Barron's biggest issues were falling down too much and being caught out of position. Yes, Harris will cover the latter, but I feel like Guhle is a better overall partner for Barron, given he's a good skater and can hold the fort down a bit more than some of the other D men.

- Eddy is on the trade block. Why not shelter him a little and try to make him look better?

Well I'd say playing 2nd or 3rd pairing to rookies certainly isn;t going to increase his value. I do like Xhekaj with Kovacevic they've looked good together when together.

[claremont]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

So finally we have

Eddy-Guhle

Harris-Barron

Xhekaj-Kovacevic

Don't love this for a number of reasons:

- Guhle needs a better partner. He's been saddled down with two of our least skilled D men and asked to play against top opposition, with pitiful results. Guhle looks better than his performances would suggest and I'd love to see him next to a puck-moving RHD now that we finally have one on the roster in Barron.

- Harris-Kovacevic has been good and certainly better than when either guy has been on their own. Don't see a reason to split this up, and it feels like we're giving Barron the partner whose skillset is most like his own rather than being complementary. Last season, Barron's biggest issues were falling down too much and being caught out of position. Yes, Harris will cover the latter, but I feel like Guhle is a better overall partner for Barron, given he's a good skater and can hold the fort down a bit more than some of the other D men.

- Eddy is on the trade block. Why not shelter him a little and try to make him look better?

I don’t mind this experiment and hopefully that is what it is for the short term. Harris and Kovacevic need to prove their adaptability with other partners. Harris seems to be a better partner for Barron than Xhekaj 

MSL is giving the rookies some trust while taking some risk. 

[habs1952]

This season is just one long training camp.

[ramcharger440]

2 hours ago, habs1952 said:

This season is just one long training camp.

100% LOL!

 

[HabsRuleForever]

Suzuki - Bedard - Caufield 

[maas_art]

2 hours ago, HabsRuleForever said:

Suzuki - Bedard - Caufield 

i could live with:

Slafkovsky - Bedard - Anderson
Caufield - Suzuki - Dach

 

[jennifer_rocket]

10 hours ago, maas_art said:

i could live with:

Slafkovsky - Bedard - Anderson
Caufield - Suzuki - Dach

 

Yeah, TBH, I see Bedard as our number 1 center and Suzuki as our number 2. And yes, I am already of the belief that we will tank and win the draft lottery.

[claremont]

10 hours ago, maas_art said:

i could live with:

Slafkovsky - Bedard - Anderson
Caufield - Suzuki - Dach

 

6 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Yeah, TBH, I see Bedard as our number 1 center and Suzuki as our number 2. And yes, I am already of the belief that we will tank and win the draft lottery.

I would love that scenario too, however if we landed Fantilli @ 6-2, or 6-3, Leo Carlsson Swede @6-3, Dvorsky (another slovakian) @6-1, or the lighter weights Will Smith @6-0 (USA), Braydon Yager - 6-0 (Moose Jaw), I would be pleased with those center additions in any other year where there isn't the generational player of Bedard. 

Just because we don't get Bedard, shouldn't mean that we should not get a solid future roster player capable of being in our top 6 core at center. 

Now if the Florida pick is reasonably high, winger Michkov who signed a contract with the KHL St. Petersburg until 2025-6 may fall. Are we prepared to wait? A lot of the weak teams at the top of this draft I suspect will not wait, unless you have multiple picks like Chicago, Rangers. The Florida pick assuming it lands after top 10, is a very interesting dilemma to pick up another scorer, and I don't believe a RHD will get picked in the top 20.

I will be ecstatic, if we can parlay some other assets Monahan or an otherwise into another first round pick. I would be sad to lose Anderson at this time, but like someone said, you can't keep falling in love with players and need to be prepared to let some go for the future.  

[maas_art]

2 hours ago, claremont said:

 

I would love that scenario too, however if we landed Fantilli @ 6-2, or 6-3, Leo Carlsson Swede @6-3, Dvorsky (another slovakian) @6-1, or the lighter weights Will Smith @6-0 (USA), Braydon Yager - 6-0 (Moose Jaw), I would be pleased with those center additions in any other year where there isn't the generational player of Bedard. 

Just because we don't get Bedard, shouldn't mean that we should not get a solid future roster player capable of being in our top 6 core at center. 

Now if the Florida pick is reasonably high, winger Michkov who signed a contract with the KHL St. Petersburg until 2025-6 may fall. Are we prepared to wait? A lot of the weak teams at the top of this draft I suspect will not wait, unless you have multiple picks like Chicago, Rangers. The Florida pick assuming it lands after top 10, is a very interesting dilemma to pick up another scorer, and I don't believe a RHD will get picked in the top 20.

I will be ecstatic, if we can parlay some other assets Monahan or an otherwise into another first round pick. I would be sad to lose Anderson at this time, but like someone said, you can't keep falling in love with players and need to be prepared to let some go for the future.  

For sure.  If we can get a top 5 (hopefully top 3) pick this year, we're going to be getting an exceptional player - possibly destined to be the best player on our roster.  

Bedard is in a class of his own but I could see a guy like Fantili Michkov being 100 point players in the NHL.  A lot of scouts seem to believe that the top 5 in last year's draft would be mid top 10 picks this year.   A top 3-5 pick this year would be huge for us.   Dare to dream that we get 2 of them. 

[BigTed3]

Have talked about this before, but when you're out of the playoff competition, you need to use your games to evaluate your youth. You want to give them a chance to develop and you want to give yourself a chance to evaluate where they're at. I've said it so many times, but Bergevin's Habs failed to do this on multiple occasions. HuGo and MSL's Habs have done what they need to, for the most part. Sure, I'd love to see a little less Hoffman and Drouin now, but we got to see 5 young D men this year and now we're getting to see some of the young forwards. We're also figuring out if Gurianov is worth keeping past this season. We're seeing different line combos. We're seeing Montembeault get a shot. This is what needed to happen. And frankly, now that we've seen it, I don't think anyone can tell me we're worse off having seen what RHP can do and how Barron has progressed and what Guhle and Harris can do against tough competition.

Now I know we'll see a decent amount of roster turnover before next season begins, but assuming we're going into next year's camp minus only Drouin/Byron/Tierney but that we're able to re-sign Monahan to a 1-year extension, this is how I would line up the roster:

Caufield-Suzuki-Dach

Slafkovsky-Monahan-Anderson

Beck-Dvorak-Ylonen

RHP-Evans-Belzile

Armia, Gallagher (and spare me the comments about how this will never happen, this is my post!)

 

Matheson-Barron

Guhle-Savard

Harris-Kovacevic

Xhekaj

 

Allen

Montembeault

 

What's apparent from this is that we will continue to have an excess of veteran players we don't need: Gallagher, Hoffman, Pitlick, Armia, Gurianov, Edmundson. Even Allen is blocking Primeau from making the roster and leaving him exposed to waivers, so we better be sure he has no future in the NHL (our one missed evaluation opportunity this year). So I think it's clear we're going to move players out. Sure, Beck doesn't need to make the roster next year, but I think he's pro-ready. I'd like to see him as the 3C, but that means Dvorak needs to go. If that happens, then RHP-Beck-Ylonen could be a nice kid line, and it allows you to bump one of Armia or Gallagher onto the 4th line. On D, how can you play Eddy? Who's sitting for him? No one should. Eddy will have more value at next year's trade deadline (if he plays and he's healthy) than he will in the off-season. No one wants to pay for a full year of Eddy, they want to get him for the playoffs and they want to delay acquiring him til they know he's healthy enough. But e may be forced to sell low on Eddy in the summer just to prevent him from blocking a roster spot. And none of this takes into consideration whether someone like Farrell, Roy, Mesar, Kidney, Struble, or Mailloux shows they're ready. The injuries this year have hurt to some degree, but when everyone's healthy, it means we'll have an excess of NHL-caliber players. So I 100% expect the likes of Hoffman, Dvorak, Allen, Eddy, and Gurianov to be shopped this off-season, and I wouldn't be surprised if Armia is bought out. 

 

 

 

[CaptWelly]

8 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Have talked about this before, but when you're out of the playoff competition, you need to use your games to evaluate your youth. You want to give them a chance to develop and you want to give yourself a chance to evaluate where they're at. I've said it so many times, but Bergevin's Habs failed to do this on multiple occasions. HuGo and MSL's Habs have done what they need to, for the most part. Sure, I'd love to see a little less Hoffman and Drouin now, but we got to see 5 young D men this year and now we're getting to see some of the young forwards. We're also figuring out if Gurianov is worth keeping past this season. We're seeing different line combos. We're seeing Montembeault get a shot. This is what needed to happen. And frankly, now that we've seen it, I don't think anyone can tell me we're worse off having seen what RHP can do and how Barron has progressed and what Guhle and Harris can do against tough competition.

Now I know we'll see a decent amount of roster turnover before next season begins, but assuming we're going into next year's camp minus only Drouin/Byron/Tierney but that we're able to re-sign Monahan to a 1-year extension, this is how I would line up the roster:

Caufield-Suzuki-Dach

Slafkovsky-Monahan-Anderson

Beck-Dvorak-Ylonen

RHP-Evans-Belzile

Armia, Gallagher (and spare me the comments about how this will never happen, this is my post!)

 

Matheson-Barron

Guhle-Savard

Harris-Kovacevic

Xhekaj

 

Allen

Montembeault

 

What's apparent from this is that we will continue to have an excess of veteran players we don't need: Gallagher, Hoffman, Pitlick, Armia, Gurianov, Edmundson. Even Allen is blocking Primeau from making the roster and leaving him exposed to waivers, so we better be sure he has no future in the NHL (our one missed evaluation opportunity this year). So I think it's clear we're going to move players out. Sure, Beck doesn't need to make the roster next year, but I think he's pro-ready. I'd like to see him as the 3C, but that means Dvorak needs to go. If that happens, then RHP-Beck-Ylonen could be a nice kid line, and it allows you to bump one of Armia or Gallagher onto the 4th line. On D, how can you play Eddy? Who's sitting for him? No one should. Eddy will have more value at next year's trade deadline (if he plays and he's healthy) than he will in the off-season. No one wants to pay for a full year of Eddy, they want to get him for the playoffs and they want to delay acquiring him til they know he's healthy enough. But e may be forced to sell low on Eddy in the summer just to prevent him from blocking a roster spot. And none of this takes into consideration whether someone like Farrell, Roy, Mesar, Kidney, Struble, or Mailloux shows they're ready. The injuries this year have hurt to some degree, but when everyone's healthy, it means we'll have an excess of NHL-caliber players. So I 100% expect the likes of Hoffman, Dvorak, Allen, Eddy, and Gurianov to be shopped this off-season, and I wouldn't be surprised if Armia is bought out. 

 

 

 

If we are actually talking about the future even though I like him , why sign Monahan. He's blocking Dach from continuing to develop as a center. Which he was doing pretty well at.